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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2005 21:32:20 GMT
u.t.l. claims that Barbican once had some sidings, signalled as OG and ostensibly used for freight traffic on the Met and the Widened Lines.
Were these sidings also used in connection with the many freight depots under the Metropolitan Triangle?
And, as an aside, how many sidings were there?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Sept 26, 2005 21:39:45 GMT
Two sidings I believe between the circle IR and the Widened Lines. I don't know if they were used for freight or not.
'OG' IMR was the first site using a V style lever frame, and part of it is (was) preserved in the LT Museum at Covent Garden.
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2005 0:32:41 GMT
I remember reading a very good internet page about the history of that area a while back that had an excellent diagram of the lines and sidings, etc. Unfortunately I can't remember what the site was  |
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Post by q8 on Sept 27, 2005 6:27:06 GMT
Barbican (then known as Aldersgate) did have sidings but as to the number I am unsure. They were accessed immediately off the end of the inner rail platform and AFAIR they were underground between the two tunnels. I think they were for freight as I never knew them to be used for stabling of trains. They were definetly in situ in the 60;s. I don't know when they were removed. The cavernous entrance can still be seen and is visible on the video 125 DVD of the Met Main.
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Post by markextube on Sept 27, 2005 9:36:17 GMT
When leaving barbican eastbound or walk to the east end of the platform you'll notice a disused tunnel to your left. I assume they were in there or at least the access road was through there
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Post by Harsig on Sept 27, 2005 9:37:45 GMT
This diagram shows the arrangements in the area in 1956 when Farringdon Cabin took control of the Circle and widened lines between Farringdon and Liverpool St Farringdon to Liverpool Street 1956 (478 KB) |
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Post by q8 on Sept 27, 2005 11:00:18 GMT
When leaving barbican eastbound or walk to the east end of the platform you'll notice a disused tunnel to your left. I assume they were in there or at least the access road was through there.
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Eastbound? Surely you mean westbound! Unless you are referring to the old alignment of the tunnel between Barbican and Moorgate which was alterd in the 60's.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2005 11:13:55 GMT
This diagram shows the arrangements in the area in 1956 when Farringdon Cabin took control of the Circle and widened lines between Farringdon and Liverpool St Farringdon to Liverpool Street 1956 (478 KB) Wonderful! Thanks Harsig!  |
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Post by russe on Sept 27, 2005 12:25:51 GMT
I can't sse the diagram Harsig has posted. I get a message from Yohoo geocities saying it's not available. Geocities sites have a small download quota, so try later. Russ (I would send you the diagram in a PM, but I don't think our PM system allows attachments) |
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2005 18:27:10 GMT
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Post by towerman on Sept 27, 2005 19:23:26 GMT
Before the C stock arrived they used to stable a circle up the sdg that came off the inner rail just north of Aldersgate as it was then.
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Post by motormanmet on Nov 8, 2006 18:41:30 GMT
One siding was removed 1971, the other 1979, cant remember which was which. One could only hold 6 cars IIRC, the other was used for freight? transfer between the met and widened lines.
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Post by Oracle on Nov 8, 2006 18:48:53 GMT
I take it that the cross-over from the Widened Lines to the Inner and Outer Rails, probably last used for the GN & CR 1938 Stock transfers, was removed when the Moorgate branch was electrified? When was Liverpool Street P3 bay removed please? I am sure I remember it in the mid-1970s?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2006 19:02:11 GMT
The Liverpool Street bay (part of OD) was removed in the mid-1980s, apparently as a cost-cutting measure due to low traffic levels. Shortly afterward, of course, traffic levels increased and design standards changed, and now the restoration of the bay would be so ruinously expensive (as well as ruinous to citysig and Harsig's health) if it were restored.
I wonder what the tunnels at Barbican are used for these days.
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Post by Harsig on Nov 8, 2006 19:08:31 GMT
I wonder what the tunnels at Barbican are used for these days. As far as I know they are used for the storage of fresh air.  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2006 19:37:35 GMT
I wonder what the tunnels at Barbican are used for these days. As far as I know they are used for the storage of fresh air. Always a useful thing to store IMO ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2006 20:38:20 GMT
Next time I'm in the area of a night time, I'll go have a look.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2006 6:08:19 GMT
was looking through an old union handbook from 1976 which gives the walking times for all the depots and sidings around the combine and barbican was still very much in use then. or at least it still had a walking time published.
moving up a station, with the introduction of the new stock, i've heard farringdon sidings will be closed (as the trains won't fit) and LUL are looking into setting up a connection to the 2 NR bay roads at Moorgate instead.
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 9, 2006 8:17:07 GMT
Of the two sidings at Barbican, the one nearest the Met. could take a 6-car train but the other could only take a 5-car so it wasn't used after they lengthened Circles to 6-cars. I think it was No 1 duty at Baker St which used to fetch this train out in the mornings. We used to access the siding from Farringdon. You walked up the CWL tunnel on the grounds that it was unlikely there would be any trains running. There was a repeater on the tunnel wall which you would glance at occasionally. We were told, "If it goes green, run!"
The tunnel was very dark and spooky. The tunnel lights were so weak they didn't make much difference. You could hear the rats scuttling around. The siding tunnel was accessed through an arch in the running tunnel wall. There was always rubbish around where the cleaners used to spill stuff from the train.
When you took the train out, you went on to the up road and worked round the outer rail. The siding was still used when I was there in the early 70s.
The freight sidings were on the other side of the CWL tracks.
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Post by mandgc on Nov 9, 2006 9:03:57 GMT
The sidings were used in the old GN&C days to enable Loco hauled stock between Drayton Park and Neasden Works to transfer from the Widened Lines to the Circle line and return.
The route was: Drayton Pk,Finsbury Pk, Kings Cross Main Line, Aldersgate (reverse),Earls Court, Rayners Lane (reverse) and Wembley Park to Neasden Works. (The GN&C stock was too large to pass through the tunnels between Baker St. and Finchley Road.)
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 9, 2006 14:23:08 GMT
Surely, they wouldn't use the Aldersgate sidings to reverse when they could use the crossover and then reach teh Met at Farringdon?
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Post by mandgc on Nov 10, 2006 22:20:14 GMT
Northern City transfers.
Graeme Bruce in 'The Big Tube" says the transfers were made at Aldersgate.
He also says the transfer of the 1938 stock ( after the closure of the Finsbury Park to Park Junction line) to Neasden was by reversing at Moorgate. These transfers were made by Battery Locos and so did not need to run round. They also could run direct from Baker Street to Neasden- not being Out of Guage.
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Post by Oracle on Nov 10, 2006 22:44:50 GMT
In the latter days the 1938 Stock reversed at the trailing cross-over north of Farringdon. A member of LURS filmed stock movements and showed us the stock at various locations including at Farringdon.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2006 23:28:27 GMT
I wonder what the tunnels at Barbican are used for these days. As far as I know they are used for the storage of fresh air. Well, air, anyway... |
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Post by mandgc on Nov 11, 2006 23:02:39 GMT
"Trailing Cross-over North of Farringdon" (Oracle's #22)
Can you pinpoint this XO in more detail, please ?
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Post by motormanmet on Nov 12, 2006 8:51:43 GMT
"Trailing Cross-over North of Farringdon" (Oracle's #22) Can you pinpoint this XO in more detail, please ? Heading west, trailing in from the widened lines to both met roads just beyond the west end of the platforms, removed IIRC when the widened lines temporarily closed in 1979. Trains could cross directly from the outer rail to widened lines by signal OH48 i think, with feathers, or shunt up the inner rail and reverse back to the widened lines by shunt signal OH32(?). I cannot remember clearly without looking at my old linebook but i think the crossover only connected to the eastbound widnened line. |
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Post by Oracle on Nov 12, 2006 10:43:14 GMT
I am certain that the #-over was indeed on the EB Widened Line, so that would presumably have required a reversal at Moorgate when heading WB? I am sure it was taken out @ electrification.
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Post by mandgc on Nov 12, 2006 22:15:12 GMT
Farringdon Crossovers.
My appologies, I mis-understood you. Thanks for the explanation.
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2012 15:41:52 GMT
This thread has been resuscitated because a recent post at London Reconnections takes a walk around the Widened Lines between Barbican and Farringdon, including these sidings. Some interesting pics, including of a series of rooms/offices between the Met and the Widened Lines, around the same sort of area as these sidings. They haven't been mentioned here, so perhaps have not been in use for years. But what were they built for? And did they lie alongside these sidings, or at the end of the sidings beyond the buffers? |
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