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Post by alpinejohn on May 3, 2012 13:42:08 GMT
Evening Standard has a nice photo of the new TFL/Emirates Air Line cable-car link across the Thames already being tested. So its looking good for opening this summer as planned. However if its like systems in the Alps, then be prepared for a few teething troubles - which will doubtless be blown out of all proportion in the media. Does anyone know when it officially opens?
Finally as the cable car link is now on the tube map does it justify its own heading on District Dave?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on May 3, 2012 16:33:33 GMT
Finally as the cable car link is now on the tube map does it justify its own heading on District Dave? Nope! Like buses, which we don't do, its not railway based. We don't even do trams (even though they run on rails), so this new fangled cable car thingy has no chance of gaining its own board here.
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Post by Deep Level on May 3, 2012 20:07:24 GMT
Does the Evening Standard offer an online version of their paper?
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Phil
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Post by Phil on May 4, 2012 10:04:06 GMT
Does the Evening Standard offer an online version of their paper? One click on Google search, laddie : www.thisislondon.co.uk/
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 10:56:31 GMT
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 4, 2012 18:40:09 GMT
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Post by crusty54 on May 4, 2012 19:59:56 GMT
Just travelled down to Woolwich on Thames Clipper. The gondolas that were visible earlier are back in their hutches.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2012 22:56:08 GMT
I saw the cable cars in action today from Canary Wharf. They looked to be going at quite a pace with about 30 seconds between cars.
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Post by 21146 on May 5, 2012 1:49:17 GMT
How surprising (not) that TFL managed to get the first cars (gondolas?) moving just one day before the mayoral election. It is after all the only TFL project delivered under Boris that was not planned by Ken (except New Bus for London I guess).
TFL staff were told not to comment on electoral matters in the run up to the collection but insiders were clearly briefing the media against Livingstone's planned fares cut.
Former TFL press officer Dan Hodges (Glenda Jackson's son) wrote a piece in the Daily Telegraph last week exposing the partisan nature of their work - these allegedly included exaggerating the number of people who watched the London leg of the Tour de France, denying future fares increases that had already been announced (after Ken made a late election pledge), and refusing to admit under FOI requests that free bus passes for under-16s had caused a huge spike in petty crime.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 9:37:23 GMT
At its peak there was at least 14 cars running around 5pm last night!
I reckon it is a safe bet this will be open in time for the games ;D
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 11:31:52 GMT
The big joke is that it’s meant to link the Dome with the ExCel but it’s a good walk the other side of North Greenwich station for the Dome and the opposite end of the King George Dock from the ExCel. Getting off the Jubilee at North Greenwich to take the Cable Car will take twice as long as going one more stop to Canning Town, up the escalator to the DLR and then two stops to Custom House
As TfL needs to recoup the £60m needed to build and operate it for the first 3 years (Boris said it wouldn't cost taxpayers a penny, whoops) I think it unlikely that you will be able to use your Oyster Card.
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Post by Deep Level on May 5, 2012 14:08:35 GMT
The big joke is that it’s meant to link the Dome with the ExCel but it’s a good walk the other side of North Greenwich station for the Dome and the opposite end of the King George Dock from the ExCel. Both the EAL Station and Excel London are in the Royal Victoria Dock, you don't need to walk to King George V Dock.
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Post by Deleted on May 5, 2012 19:38:48 GMT
The big joke is that it’s meant to link the Dome with the ExCel but it’s a good walk the other side of North Greenwich station for the Dome and the opposite end of the King George Dock from the ExCel. Getting off the Jubilee at North Greenwich to take the Cable Car will take twice as long as going one more stop to Canning Town, up the escalator to the DLR and then two stops to Custom House As TfL needs to recoup the £60m needed to build and operate it for the first 3 years (Boris said it wouldn't cost taxpayers a penny, whoops) I think it unlikely that you will be able to use your Oyster Card. it is a 5 min walk MAX to the Excel from the cable car station. As for Oyster I am pretty sure I read that the system will be run by the DLR and be part of its network so of course you will be able to use Oyster.
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Post by snoggle on May 6, 2012 20:53:57 GMT
The big joke is that it’s meant to link the Dome with the ExCel but it’s a good walk the other side of North Greenwich station for the Dome and the opposite end of the King George Dock from the ExCel. Getting off the Jubilee at North Greenwich to take the Cable Car will take twice as long as going one more stop to Canning Town, up the escalator to the DLR and then two stops to Custom House As TfL needs to recoup the £60m needed to build and operate it for the first 3 years (Boris said it wouldn't cost taxpayers a penny, whoops) I think it unlikely that you will be able to use your Oyster Card. it is a 5 min walk MAX to the Excel from the cable car station. As for Oyster I am pretty sure I read that the system will be run by the DLR and be part of its network so of course you will be able to use Oyster. Err DLR have been lumbered with managing the project. Mace, who are building the cable car, will run it for the first three years so it is privately operated. I assume that DLR will manage the contract with Mace. I think it is rash to assume anything about ticket acceptance. There were several Mayor's questions earlier this year asking what the fares would be and what tickets would be accepted. No clear responses were given. I would be amazed if you could use it for a £1.40 PAYG fare!! It is similar to other river services which are outside both the PAYG tariff and the Travelcard zones.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 21:38:22 GMT
it is a 5 min walk MAX to the Excel from the cable car station. As for Oyster I am pretty sure I read that the system will be run by the DLR and be part of its network so of course you will be able to use Oyster. Err DLR have been lumbered with managing the project. Mace, who are building the cable car, will run it for the first three years so it is privately operated. I assume that DLR will manage the contract with Mace. I think it is rash to assume anything about ticket acceptance. There were several Mayor's questions earlier this year asking what the fares would be and what tickets would be accepted. No clear responses were given. I would be amazed if you could use it for a £1.40 PAYG fare!! It is similar to other river services which are outside both the PAYG tariff and the Travelcard zones. Hardly the same as a boat going up the thames is it? do you pay more for a train crossing the thames? If the fares are higher than Oyster the service will flop big time! TBH I really can't see this taking off, sure there will be a big surge at the start when lots of people want to have a ride but after that I am not sure. I mean for example why would you say use it from the O2 at 11pm at night to travel to a deserted Royal Dock (Unless you live there) you might as well catch the train from North Greenwich to Canning Town ;D Found this on youtube Now if you know the area it would make you laugh the amount of people in that video leaving the station and walking along them roads is extremely optimistic. You would be lucky to to that many people in a week ;D ;D
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 6, 2012 21:39:58 GMT
TBH I really can't see this taking off I don't *think* that's what it's meant to do. I know it's call the Airline, but still.
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2012 21:48:40 GMT
TBH I really can't see this taking off I don't *think* that's what it's meant to do. I know it's call the Airline, but still. bom bom ;D ;D
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 6, 2012 21:56:08 GMT
Premium fares on Oyster cards are perfectly possible though, as they work fine on Thames Clipper services. While it may only be a 5 minute walk from the Royal Docks station to ExCeL West, it's less than 2 minutes from Custom House (and about 2 minutes from Prince Regent to ExCeL East). It's also a good 5 minutes (probably more, I've not done it) from North Greenwich Jubilee to Greenwich Peninsula Cable Car, compared with a 1-3 minute interchange at Canning Town (depending on which platform the eastbound DLR departs from) there is no point using the cable car except when both the following are true: - Your origin/destination is closer to Greenwich Peninsula cable car station than North Greenwich Jubilee
- The other end of your journey is within 5 minutes walk of Royal Docks cable car station
That's not a lot of journeys. Even during the games it will only potentially benefit people in the following situations - Those attending consecutive events at the Dome and ExCeL
- Those staying in hotels closer to Royal Docks cable car station than any DLR station attending events at the Dome
- Those staying in hotels closer to Greenwich Peninsula cable car station than North Greenwich station attending events at ExCeL west
It wont even be any use to those avoiding queues and congestion in other situations, as they'll have to join queues and congestion at North Greenwich, Custom House and/or Royal Victoria anyway. If premium fares are charged then even fewer people will use it. AFAIK it has not even been decided whether Olympic travelcards will be valid on it, if they are then some people may use it for the experience, but they're unlikely to if they aren't. As a part of London's public transport network it doesn't make sense. With different placement of stations, especially at the North Greenwich end, it might have done but as built it doesn't. It's notable that neither the operators of O2 nor the operators of ExCeL have been campaigning for this, nor are they sponsoring it (which it wouldn't need if it made sense as part of the transport network). If it makes sense as a tourist attraction, then it should be a 100% private sector operation (I don't want my tax money to pay for tourist attractions, and I don't think private sector tourist attraction operators would want public sector competition).
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Post by Deep Level on May 6, 2012 23:00:36 GMT
TBH I really can't see this taking off I don't *think* that's what it's meant to do. I know it's call the Airline, but still. Emirates Airline = Dubai Based Airline Emirates Air Line = Cable Car over the Thames
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 6, 2012 23:15:17 GMT
Having had a dig around, it seems that TfL have their branding slightly squew with this, all of the web-pagery calles it the Emirates Air Line, but all of the logos are for the Emirates Air-Line. Perhaps its best we just call it the cable car, and banish it from the tube map and this forum? (on account that it doesn't run or rails or in a tube)
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Post by Chris M on May 6, 2012 23:26:31 GMT
I'm all for calling it just "cable car". I know it doesn't quite apply here, but if I were dictator one of the laws I'd make would be to outlaw locations and events being named only for a sponsor. "Emirates Ashburton Grove Stadium" and similar are fine, but "Emirates Stadium" is not.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on May 6, 2012 23:35:39 GMT
How about Emirates Thames Télécabine then?
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Post by Deep Level on May 7, 2012 0:18:36 GMT
I don't have a problem with the name 'Emirates Air Line' but the stations are called 'Emirates Royal Docks' & 'Emirates Greenwich Peninsula' which really bugs me, not only does the word 'Emirates' not describe the stations location at all (which is what a station name is for) but this also means that they have to change the station name when the Emirates Sponsorship is up.
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 13:47:58 GMT
I think it's main use will come from its novelty, tourist attraction and not a real transport link. I expect it will be busy at the Summer weekends, but a wet, chilly Tuesday morning it will be rather deserted.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 7, 2012 18:30:51 GMT
but the stations are called 'Emirates Royal Docks' & 'Emirates Greenwich Peninsula' which really bugs me, not only does the word 'Emirates' not describe the stations location at all (which is what a station name is for) but this also means that they have to change the station name when the Emirates Sponsorship is up. a similar issue came up when FCC decided to rebrand the Thameslink franchise, as three stations (two now that KXTL has closed) include the name in their titles.
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Post by Deep Level on May 7, 2012 22:01:51 GMT
Thameslink is the name of the Rail Franchise.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 4:38:27 GMT
Sorry got my monarchs mixed up but the point was the same, the Cable Car is at the west end of the Royal Victoria Dock, a short walk from Royal Victoria DLR, while ExCel is halfway down, level with Custom House DLR, roughly 800m or a 6 minute brisk walk along the side of the dock.
The sponsorship deal is £36m spread over ten years but that's not much when compared to the £45m construction and the £5.5m a year operating cost. I suspect the best Oyster Card holders can expect is a discount fare and even that seems unlikely.
As for tourists, oh yes, I can see them flocking to enjoy panoramic views of majestic Canning Town and Charlton. I did read somewhere that this will offer aerial views of the Olympic Park but as that's three miles to the north I wouldn't like to say how much of it you'll be able to see.
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Post by Chris M on May 9, 2012 17:02:14 GMT
I suspect that whoever wrote "aerial views of the Olympic Park" was confused, as you will get aerial views of Olympic venues, but I don't think either the O2 or ExCeL are particularly interesting from above.
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Post by Deleted on May 9, 2012 19:40:02 GMT
Sorry got my monarchs mixed up but the point was the same, the Cable Car is at the west end of the Royal Victoria Dock, a short walk from Royal Victoria DLR, while ExCel is halfway down, level with Custom House DLR, roughly 800m or a 6 minute brisk walk along the side of the dock. The sponsorship deal is £36m spread over ten years but that's not much when compared to the £45m construction and the £5.5m a year operating cost. I suspect the best Oyster Card holders can expect is a discount fare and even that seems unlikely. As for tourists, oh yes, I can see them flocking to enjoy panoramic views of majestic Canning Town and Charlton. I did read somewhere that this will offer aerial views of the Olympic Park but as that's three miles to the north I wouldn't like to say how much of it you'll be able to see. But surely higher fair will just put people offer? Would you pay say £3.00 from Royal Victoria or use Royal Vic DLR to Canning Town then on to North Greenwich and pay £1.50 I have a horrible feeling this is going to be a huge flop! unless there is even more rapid development in the Royal Docks!
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Post by Deep Level on May 9, 2012 22:32:40 GMT
I went there today because from a distance it looked like they were testing it and I wanted to get some photos but when I went there a couple of hours later nothing was happening.
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