cso
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Post by cso on Apr 27, 2012 10:22:51 GMT
Was there actually ever any official word on the cause of this?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Apr 27, 2012 13:34:22 GMT
It was not my intention to question the honesty or integrity of staff on this forum, so I'll withdraw.
I note, however, some of the sentiments one could potentially consider implied within such threads on Good Service indication, The New Met Timetable, and that mighty leviathan Automate everything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 14:24:00 GMT
I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct].
Anyway they now say that grouting was the cause of the bulge. So that's alright then!
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Post by 21146 on Apr 27, 2012 15:18:02 GMT
Was the grouting carried out that night, or earlier? Was there no patrolman booked through that area on Wed night to spot this due to the reduction of such tasks through cost-cutting? It'll be interesting to see the ORR/HMRI report on this one!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 17:20:07 GMT
I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct]. [\quote] This was how I read Bens post. I am still not convinced the smoke alarms were set off by excessive dust due to the reasons given earlier - although evidence at KX contradicts my post that there are no smoke alarms in public locations. Although I couldn't see any in the Met ticket hall I presume they are located in the North ticket hall. Again sticking my neck out I would say these are an exception rather than a rule. I would give a best guess these were potentially unconnected events. I haven't read anything official or semi official but my belief the primary cause of this incident will likely be human error with contractors. Secondary factors will look at track inspections etc. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 17:25:27 GMT
I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct]. [\quote] This was how I read Bens post. I am still not convinced the smoke alarms were set off by excessive dust due to the reasons given earlier - although evidence at KX contradicts my post that there are no smoke alarms in public locations. Although I couldn't see any in the Met ticket hall I presume they are located in the North ticket hall. Again sticking my neck out I would say these are an exception rather than a rule. I would give a best guess these were potentially unconnected events. I haven't read anything official or semi official but my belief the primary cause of this incident will likely be human error with contractors. Secondary factors will look at track inspections etc. It is not unknown for items to be installed in engineering hours that are out of gauge. Am remembering the cabling equipment installed in the Farringdon area that caused damage (smashed several windows off trains) as the ones that were put in overnight were either not right or installed correctly! |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 27, 2012 18:19:37 GMT
there was also the out of gauge scaffolding at Aldgate not so long back. The official report into that one is in the public doman I believe but can't remember where (Whatdotheyknow perhaps?)
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Post by snoggle on Apr 27, 2012 18:34:32 GMT
I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct]. Anyway they now say that grouting was the cause of the bulge. So that's alright then! I think there is a need for some balance. Passengers need info to plan their journeys if there is a disruption to service. What they don't need is excessive and possibly incorrect detail that then causes them to "panic" about what might be going on. In today's fevered news environment the desire to know *now* is ever present. In a complex incident TfL may only have the latest news not the definite truth or the cause but that is what everyone is demanding. If TfL saying nothing they are accused of a cover up. If they say something that is timely but possibly not 100% accurate they're accused of lying. They can't win.  The RMT are also in permanent campaign mode and will take any opportunity to show TfL are cost cutting, safety avoiding skinflints whether that is supported by the information or not. If you were TfL you would not want to give the RMT undue cause to pour more oil on the flames. The Mayoral election doesn't help matters either. And then add in Twitter, blogs and discussion groups! TfL can't escape public and regulatory scrutiny and are caught by various government initiatives on public disclosure so the info does end up in the public domain. Be glad you don't work in the TfL Press Office  |
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Post by jamesb on Apr 27, 2012 19:06:36 GMT
Where there are smoke alarms in public areas, they seem to be located around fire doors which have been fitted at various locations, e.g. Kings Cross, Green Park, Bond Street. I guess they are located there to trigger the fire doors to close if they detect smoke... I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct]. [\quote] This was how I read Bens post. I am still not convinced the smoke alarms were set off by excessive dust due to the reasons given earlier - although evidence at KX contradicts my post that there are no smoke alarms in public locations. Although I couldn't see any in the Met ticket hall I presume they are located in the North ticket hall. Again sticking my neck out I would say these are an exception rather than a rule. I would give a best guess these were potentially unconnected events. I haven't read anything official or semi official but my belief the primary cause of this incident will likely be human error with contractors. Secondary factors will look at track inspections etc. |
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Phil
In memoriam
RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Apr 28, 2012 7:15:57 GMT
I thought that Ben was saying that TfL are sometimes (or I think often) economical with the truth and that LU staff on here either do or want to tell the truth [but are then fearful of disciplinary action using LULs Code of Conduct. This was how I read Bens post. Thanks for that input guys - there's often more than one way of reading a post and the pressure on LU staff must be huge at times, and the admin team are very protective of our LU staff members  - but aren't you two still (politely) making the same allegations about a "respected" employer ? It's damned if you do, damned if you don't. IF LU genuinely didn't know EXACTLY what that train hit for a while, then they really were on the biggest loser, at the mercy of the press and the social media freaks, and in a way the most responsible (least irresponsible) thing to do was to say absolutely nothing till some facts were known......................but that then starts the rumour/disaster mill. |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Apr 28, 2012 11:45:31 GMT
Was the grouting carried out that night, or earlier? Was there no patrolman booked through that area on Wed night to spot this due to the reduction of such tasks through cost-cutting? It'll be interesting to see the ORR/HMRI report on this one! Patrolmen walk the track and are trained to look for defects on the rails, chairs etc. they will be looking down to inspect the track. |
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Post by dagdave on Apr 28, 2012 16:33:39 GMT
Very unusual for a tunnel to be scraped, more common for the platform as that is where the gap between train and infrastructure is designed to be closest.
I remember when the 96 stock was introduced on the Northern Line, tunnels had to be enlarged and track lowered in certain places (I'm talking just 10 or 20mm) to squeeze the stock in.
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Post by causton on Apr 28, 2012 19:47:30 GMT
I remember when the 96 stock was introduced on the Northern Line I don't ;D Do you mean the Jubilee line or the 95 stock? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 21:53:51 GMT
Was it not around 1984 when there was some work being done in the northbound tunnel between Waterloo and Embankment and some holes being drilled through the tunnel, resulting unintentionally in trains getting a wash every trip? ;D
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Apr 29, 2012 7:26:38 GMT
With regard to this incident, there was a fire alert on the Bakerloo Line on the morning of Thursday 26 March 2012, the Train Operator of a southbound train reported arcing from the positive conductor rail, midway between Embankment and Waterloo at around 6am.
The service was suspended southbound between Picadilly Circus and Elephant and Castle.
So the alarm was raised by a member of the train staff not a fire sensing device.
The Fire Brigade and ERU and other staff were called to deal with the incident.
At around 7.10 am the service was restored with severe delays.
Later reports started coming in about a train being damaged by the bulge in the tunnel, service was then suspended between Piccadilly Circus and Elephant & Castle both southbound and northbound.
Service was resumed at around 9.15pm with severe delays untill the end of the night.
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- but aren't you two still (politely) making the same allegations about a "respected" employer 
