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Post by edb on Apr 26, 2012 9:13:19 GMT
Anyone know what's happened?
Was reported as a collapse by the social media.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 9:23:06 GMT
Anyone know what's happened? Was reported as a collapse by the social media. No Tunnel Collapse apparently |
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 26, 2012 9:46:57 GMT
Anyone know what's happened? Was reported as a collapse by the social media. No Tunnel Collapse apparently Without saying too much there are a lot of twitching holes at the moment. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 9:50:03 GMT
It can't be too bad as hasn't the line just been suspended south of Piccadilly Circus not evacuated
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 9:54:02 GMT
Seems the RMT have been hyping this event up according to what has been said on other forums.
TFL & BTP have said it isnt a tunnel collapse just a train has hit an obstruction
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Apr 26, 2012 11:00:38 GMT
BBC News are now "on the case"
I wonder how a driverless train would have dealt with this??
And if TfL are saying that it's just an obstruction, how did the "obstruction" get there if it isn't a bit of tunnel roof??
Notice also, the LU station "Service Information" board displayed on the Telegraph website states that closure is due to a "Fire alert". This is patently untrue and should be queried. It is NOT a fire alert, it COULD have been something far more serious. LU should not be allowed to get away with this lie.
Nigel Holness, LU's operations director, said: "There is no tunnel collapse in the Bakerloo line, nor is there any flooding or any injuries. It is wrong and irresponsible to suggest otherwise."
@ Mr Holness> > Nor is it a "Fire Alert". > It is equally wrong and irresponsible to tell people that it is.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 11:02:41 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 11:23:51 GMT
It's funny we are surrounded by all this media yet we have come to the conclusion of: absolutely nothing. All these websites may as well be pure speculation, there are now tonnes of pages worth of reports on a google search about everything from a "bulging wall due to heavy rainfall" to a "minor defect". I'm not going to believe TfL, RMT or anything the papers say until some solid facts come out.
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Post by programmes1 on Apr 26, 2012 11:49:55 GMT
It's funny we are surrounded by all this media yet we have come to the conclusion of: absolutely nothing. All these websites may as well be pure speculation, there are now tonnes of pages worth of reports on a google search about everything from a "bulging wall due to heavy rainfall" to a "minor defect". I'm not going to believe TfL, RMT or anything the papers say until some solid facts come out. Yes but which one is true? watch this space. |
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Apr 26, 2012 11:55:52 GMT
It's funny we are surrounded by all this media yet we have come to the conclusion of: absolutely nothing. All these websites may as well be pure speculation, there are now tonnes of pages worth of reports on a google search about everything from a "bulging wall due to heavy rainfall" to a "minor defect". I'm not going to believe TfL, RMT or anything the papers say until some solid facts come out. In view of the current hype and stupidity of the press, reporting without any facts, it's well to remember it's not new and could be far worse............... .......................like as in the (current so relevant) reporting of the Titanic disaster at the time. Several publications produced articles, just to fill space, of the "lucky events that meant no lives were lost". That included one or two of the 'respectable' ones at the time. Total reassurance to worried relatives - - BEFORE any of the facts were known. And another reminder of "things in tunnels". Remember the incident on the Central where a heavy bag was disturbed from its resting position in a recess after engineering works - and caused total chaos on the line for hours? www.raib.gov.uk/publications/investigation_reports/reports_2008/report032008.cfmWhy not something similar here - OR NOT? We don't have the facts yet, do we? But the world and his dog all want answers now - seemingly regardless of the facts in the view of certain of the press.... |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 26, 2012 12:32:53 GMT
'Minor' is a very useful word here. It could be used to mean that the defect is only small, regardless of the severity of the consequences, or it could mean that it's a defect with minor consequences.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 26, 2012 13:58:50 GMT
Having now read that Telegraph article, it wouldn't surprise me if the "smoke" was actually dust. I know from previous posts on this forum that dust can set off LU's sensitive fire alarms.
If that is what has happened then the fire alert reported was genuine, although a consequence of the incident rather than anything directly related. If it can't immediately be verified that the cause of a fire alarm is not a fire, I think it's standard procedure for the fire brigade to be called.
It is likely also standard to have ambulances ready in the case of any incident involving a passenger-carrying train in a tunnel.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 14:27:20 GMT
If that is what has happened then the fire alert reported was genuine, although a consequence of the incident rather than anything directly related. If it can't immediately be verified that the cause of a fire alarm is not a fire, I think it's standard procedure for the fire brigade to be called. It is likely also standard to have ambulances ready in the case of any incident involving a passenger-carrying train in a tunnel. Spot on Chris! If the fire alarm is not investigated (and able to be cleared) within 7 minutes, the emergency services will be called and an evacuation (of wherever the incident may be), is commenced.  The "Fire Alert" status update this morning was exactly that. There was nothing incorrect about it. At the point before an investigation could be carried out and what the problem was (or still is?) could be determined, all anyone could tell is that a fire alarm was going off. Also, lets remember, it's better to be safe than sorry. I imagine there would be lots of investigations for many different reasons, regardless of it being a "small recess" or the "tunnel collapsing". |
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Post by fleetline on Apr 26, 2012 15:11:52 GMT
Think people forget as the situation becomes clearer the reason may change. This is a very good example (possible) of smoke causing a fire alert (Ive know dust to create a fire alarm) that was then changed in line with what was found.
However for the major incident, may be awhile before everything comes out and we need to let TfL and others deal with the situation professionally before knowing the truth.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 15:59:24 GMT
Another update to the story: twitter.com/#!/BBCTomEdwards/status/195534607284846593/photo/1 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 16:27:55 GMT
Not withstanding the fact that dust does & can activate the fire alarm and LU protocol is to contact the Fire Brigade for each alarm activation a dust event is unlikely to have activated the fire alarm. There is no fire detection in public areas. The rooms off the platform are compartmented and while this has the effect of keeping fire & smoke IN the room it also has the affect of keeping dust OUT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 16:42:05 GMT
Not withstanding the fact that dust does & can activate the fire alarm and LU protocol is to contact the Fire Brigade for each alarm activation a dust event is unlikely to have activated the fire alarm. There is no fire detection in public areas. The rooms off the platform are compartmented and while this has the effect of keeping fire & smoke IN the room it also has the affect of keeping dust OUT. Explain the detector heads in some of the walkways at KXSP then... |
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Post by trt on Apr 26, 2012 16:51:46 GMT
There are many different kinds of fire detector. I haven't seen the ones at KXSP, though I'll look tonight, but I expect these are "hot spot" detectors which trigger if an object exceeding a certain temperature and size is in their detection area. The smoke detectors which are triggered by dust are optical smoke detectors. Smoke detectors can also be of the ionisation type.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 16:56:52 GMT
To be fair I haven't seen the detectors at KX. KX is unique in many ways and may in fact prove me wrong. On reflection some new builds have VESDAs - very early smoke detector apparatus in locations with sizeable ceiling voids.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 17:16:03 GMT
They look like regular Hochiki optical/heat combo heads to me.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 26, 2012 17:31:35 GMT
Can we stick to the subject line, please.
It is clear that there was a 'fire alert', although it seems that alert was created more by tunnel dust.
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Post by JR 15secs on Apr 26, 2012 17:35:29 GMT
Can we stick to the subject line, please.It is clear that there was a 'fire alert', although it seems that alert was created more by tunnel dust. The fire alert was due to a conductor pot smoking all related to the problem. BBC London news has this photo. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17853428 |
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 26, 2012 18:14:42 GMT
That's the WWII lining, isn't it?
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Post by rsdworker on Apr 26, 2012 18:32:46 GMT
That's the WWII lining, isn't it? yeah i think its built before WWII |
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Post by JR 15secs on Apr 26, 2012 18:43:17 GMT
That's the WWII lining, isn't it? yeah i think its built before WWII Just after WW1. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 20:08:27 GMT
I read this as "conductor smoking pot". ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2012 20:41:47 GMT
I read this as "conductor smoking pot". ;D I'm ashamed to say so did I! ;D As far as this incident is concerned, all the rumour, knee-jerk accusations of lying and further ill-informed reporting is not a great surprise really is it? It happens with monotonous regularity whenever anything like this happens. Our increasingly needy world of "24/7 on demand information" allied to our relentless desire to know the ins and outs of the duck's backside before the true facts are known makes this situation possible. Great.  Apparently, no one got hurt or killed. That's the important bit. |
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Post by rsdworker on Apr 26, 2012 21:01:14 GMT
on website - bakerloo is running full line again - only severe delays but NO press release about that
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Apr 27, 2012 3:24:57 GMT
Mac - "let TfL deal with it professionally first" There are seemingly a fair amount of staff on here who, publicly or privately, doubt whether that is within management's grasp at even the best of times... Might it be something like; tunnel warps slightly, train knocks buldge, dust is expelled into tunnel, draughts send dust into station, dust sets off fire alarm? Or are these two totally seperate incidents? whistlekiller; whilst I agree with your sentiment, I suspect that its only a natural reaction to a feeling of Authorities being only too willing to bend the truth, take it out of context, misrepresent it, invent it, cover it up, or hype it purely for propagandas' sake, according to their own wants or needs. Considering the stream of stories about various cover ups and other dubious professionally sanctioned acts that seem to have increased in common knowlege since the digital age its hardly suprising. We live in an age of cynicism and suspicion, and most of it seems justified!! As the government/police seem to say, if you've done nothing wrong then why hide anything?  |
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Post by Admin Team on Apr 27, 2012 5:39:58 GMT
There are seemingly a fair amount of staff on here who, publicly or privately, doubt whether that is within management's grasp at even the best of times...
Thank you. |
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