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Post by adehare2012 on Apr 11, 2012 14:43:08 GMT
HI all.
Well, its been sometime now since the S Stock started to go through to Aldgate in the peak periods, when I often travel between Liverpool Street and Kings Cross St Pancras to work.
I've resisted making any real comments on them until now, as like a few people I wasn't that impressed with them when they first came into service in the city, but thought that in fairness I'd give them chance to get settled in and prove their worth.
Well they have, and then some. I'm visually impaired and so for me, the new trains are a godsend as there is consistent information. I have to say that I usually go to Aldgate and then double back (I'm an monthly paper travelcard holder so Oyster can't get me) and just find this easier as its level access to the platform from National Rail rather than negotiating stairs.
Anyway, I find now that I'm much happier if an S Stock shows up than an A Stock as I know then I'll get consistent information which you can actually hear, rather than wondering whether the driver out of Aldgate is going to feel like saying anything at all on the A Stocks.
My only thing is at Aldgate when the doors close automatically, its a bit confusing when the trains suddenly move off without the door close alarms sounding, or the door close alarms sounding when the train doesn't move, but I'm getting used to that now.
One thing that does confuse me, how come at Barbican station, the train announces that the front doors won't open 'here', when its obvious because they haven't already? I'm sure there's something behind that, and I am grateful for all the announcements, just wondering though.
Finally. Whoever thought of making the train make an announcement when the destination or stopping pattern of the train changes (eg from all stations to semi-fast, etc) should be congratulated, as that kind of thing just isn't mentioned on the A Stocks, its take pot luck if the train is stopping where you think it is (if you go beyond Finchley Road that is).
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Post by superteacher on Apr 12, 2012 10:47:08 GMT
A good analysis of the benefits of S stock. However, the biggest gripe seems to come from long distance users who have to travel in from the far reaches of the Met. I'm glad you're liking them though, as indeed I do. Not sure if my opinion would change if I lived in Chesham though!
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 12, 2012 13:19:14 GMT
I travel a lot from Chesham and I think they're much better than the grotty old A Stock! I really don't know what LUL could do to create a train which people like. The S Stock are clean, comfortable, informative with there announcements and walk through (all of which I've said before). They are also much better looking in appearance than than the As. I know people are going to hate for saying that and I'm ready for the criticism lol!!!  Bring on the S7's!!!!!!!! |
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Post by metrailway on Apr 12, 2012 14:26:09 GMT
...The S Stock are clean, comfortable, informative with there announcements and walk through (all of which I've said before). They are also much better looking in appearance than than the As... Granted the S Stock does have more information and that does help many users of the Met as adehare2012 has pointed out. The S Stock certainly has a smoother ride compared to the A Stock and this is to be expected. If it didn't, it would be pretty worrying that the new stock has a worse ride to it's 50 year old uncle! The S Stock should be clean since it's new! The A Stock was clean when it was brand new and after refurbishment. Wait a few years time and the S Stock will be sadly grotty as well. Comfort and appearance are subjective. I prefer the A Stock seats but I know many will prefer the seats on the S stock. About the 'overall look' of the S Stock you may prefer it now, but it might start to look incredibly old fashioned in 15 years time. The thing about the A Stock is that due to it's simple look it never looked in or out of fashion. Here is an article from the Guardian about the classic design of the A Stock: www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/artblog/2007/oct/22/classicsofeverydaydesignno33The main gripe most of us have about the S Stock is not all of the above but the reduction of seats - a 32% reduction in seats. TfL claimed that this reduction in seats will be countered by increased train frequency. However this will be only possible from 2018 at the earliest, long after the A Stock has gone. |
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 12, 2012 15:37:56 GMT
I really like the 92 Stock but looking at them now I have to say that they do look incrediably dated- something from the 1980s although I think that gives them there appeal |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 15:50:56 GMT
I'm a Chesham commuter (with very negative views about the new timetable...). Have to say that I like the S stock; interestingly when Met line management team came out to Chesham and were pretty much harangued about the timetable, they were clearly ready to defend the S stock. However, there was almost universal approval of them amongst the 150 or so who attended.
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Post by adehare2012 on Apr 12, 2012 16:02:12 GMT
I can't really comment on the look of the S Stocks nor how clean they are, I can't see in that much detail.
I take the points about perhaps them not being as comfy as the A Stocks for the journey in from Amersham or Chesham, but I haven't had to do that journey for some time now, but never say never.
I didn't realise there were fewer seats on the S Stock, as I tend to stand a lot on the tube anyway, I just find it easier, and if I get my guide dog sometime this year, then I'll probably stand even more to keep the dog out of people's way.
Overall, S stock wins against the A Stock, but at the same time, should an A Stock appear, I won't not get on it, but will know htat I have to be more on the ball and not hope too much that the driver might make the odd announcement, like where the things going (though as long as it makes it to Kings Cross all well and good)
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Post by peterc on Apr 12, 2012 16:35:35 GMT
I retired a few weeks ago so no longer have to face the daily commute but I certainly preferred the S stock to travel from Chalfont to Farringdon.
Its the Ricky and Chorleywood passengers who have reason to complain not the ones at the far end of the line. I always got a seat in the mornings, in the evening I might have had to stand more often but the design of the S stock means that Kings Cross passengers don't totally block the doors when there are free seats inside.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 17:12:33 GMT
I suggest that you get them surgically removed before you are permanently damaged. ;D
XF
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 17:51:09 GMT
Being quite tall, I must say I much prefer the S Stocks purely for the leg room available on the sideways seats. I have absolutely no chance of sitting opposite anyone on the A Stock's, I'd rather stand.. and even when nobody is sitting opposite I still find it a little uncomfortable. Do note that I don't sit there with my legs tripping everyone up, I make sure I get out of the way when necessary ;D
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Dom K
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Post by Dom K on Apr 12, 2012 18:09:53 GMT
I've not been on the S stock yet as I dont really go that way often. However, this Sunday I shall be going to a FA Cup Semi Final, so will use the Met and hopefully get the chance of getting on a S Stock from Kings Cross |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 18:33:22 GMT
Travelling on the met around november last year I would look forward to getting an A stock especially if my journey involved a fast section. However now I agree the S stock is much better for what ever sort of journey that is being made, even though some chesham customers may disagree.
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 12, 2012 19:37:03 GMT
Blimey everyone is supporting the S Stock for once. It appears that they are growing on everyone! |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Apr 12, 2012 19:38:43 GMT
Blimey everyone is supporting the S Stock for once. It appears that they are growing on everyone! Fear not, MetMan should be along soon..... |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 20:31:16 GMT
He was last seen on the back of a lorry heading through Northwood; he'd been in some sort of scrap at the station  XF |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Apr 12, 2012 20:39:05 GMT
I'm actually not as impressed with them as I was when they were first introduced :/. I find the seats less comfortable and the atmosphere isn't the same - but that's a personal thing.
The door chime when the doors open is quite annoying as well. Also, I'm not sure if I'm the only one who thinks this, but there are a number that are filthy on the exterior. Don't travel on the Met that often but whenever I do catch an S Stock, they aren't the cleanest on the outside at all.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 21:05:27 GMT
The S stock looks terrible, honestly if they looked better and didnt have those poxy gangways and looked more like trains than trams I would not mind them. The S stock announcements are far too enthusiastic too.
Like metrailway says, the A stock design and most older stuff on the Underground before the 92ts, they were all designed in a fairly simple manner making them look timeless, unlike the S stock with its ridiculous 'modern' plastic curvey bits all round the front that will look horrible in 10 years time.
Good one LU, a great choice
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Post by causton on Apr 12, 2012 21:31:25 GMT
The S stock looks terrible, honestly if they looked better and didnt have those poxy gangways Yeah right, those 'poxy' gangways? Those are for people to stand in and move about you know... unlike on an A stock where you have nowhere to stand without blocking people into their seats... and the seats are '1 and a bit people comfortably' or '2 and a bit people comfortably'! It's all opinion and such but I don't agree with you in the slightest... |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 12, 2012 21:53:00 GMT
I have no problem with the seats. They can fit 3 and 2 in reasonable comfort. Just compare the 3+2 seats on some NR EMU/DMUs which are much more narrow. The problem is that people have got larger and less social!
The poxy gangways do allow people to move about the train which is a good thing but nobody stands in these areas as there is nothing to hang onto. LUL should have improved its research but visited places like Brussels and seeing how space in gangways is used in their trams.
(Strangely, the new Brussels low floor trams are horrid and also built by Bombardier!)
Don't like the look of the S stock either, but I'm not a rolling stock designer and probably couldn't have done better. A LOT of hard work went into designing these trains.
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Post by redsetter on Apr 12, 2012 22:09:29 GMT
The S stock looks terrible, honestly if they looked better and didnt have those poxy gangways and looked more like trains than trams I would not mind them. The S stock announcements are far too enthusiastic too. Like metrailway says, the A stock design and most older stuff on the Underground before the 92ts, they were all designed in a fairly simple manner making them look timeless, unlike the S stock with its ridiculous 'modern' plastic curvey bits all round the front that will look horrible in 10 years time. Good one LU, a great choice its lost it and that's all there is to it. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2012 22:09:59 GMT
The S stock looks terrible, honestly if they looked better and didnt have those poxy gangways Yeah right, those 'poxy' gangways? Those are for people to stand in and move about you know... unlike on an A stock where you have nowhere to stand without blocking people into their seats... and the seats are '1 and a bit people comfortably' or '2 and a bit people comfortably'! It's all opinion and such but I don't agree with you in the slightest... Those gangways are horrib, I dont know why they cant't just put normal gangways like they do on the mainline but just leave it open rather than have doors for them. Personally I would get whoever can built A stock again, but with various improvements such as air-con, new bogies, AC motors etc. But the basic design would still be the A stock. |
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Post by alfie on Apr 12, 2012 22:23:42 GMT
The door chime when the doors open is quite annoying as well That's my favourite thing about it..it doesn't seem as loud and as BZZZZT (if that makes any sense whatsoever) as it used to be  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 8:32:49 GMT
As I said, I like the S stock; one or two design issues I'm not keen on; the destination board on the front looks a bit 'stuck on' and the gangways could look better internally. However, I think the main thing is the view of ordinary passengers; yesterday, when travelling from Chesham to London (off peak...very slowly..), the two elderly people I was travelling with (95 and 83!), they noticed the train was new, really liked it and found it very easy to get on and off (low floors). For me, that's probably what it's all about really.
Also, the accessibility improvements on LU are amazing; travelled with my two elderly companions to Kings Cross and they were amazed at how earth it was to get about. No stars, level access throughout. Compare that to a trip a few years ago with my father in law (then 90) and it was a complete nightmare.
So, despite my continuing dislike of the new Met timetable, which is totally unacceptable, I do think that LU are very good and have made sound decisions with regard to new trains and accessibility.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 8:37:57 GMT
Two quick additional points; my nightmare journey a few years back was on the Paris Metro. Last time I was there I didnt see any accessibility programme in evidence; tough if you are elderly or infirm!
Secondly, sorry about grammar in previous post; Apple auto-correct strikes again...
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Post by 21146 on Apr 13, 2012 13:21:21 GMT
I note a number of the destination/set number LEDs are now failing and saw several S Stock with these unlit yesterday. Are roller blinds and set number 'books' really so outdated?
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Post by uzairjubilee on Apr 13, 2012 13:38:58 GMT
I note a number of the destination/set number LEDs are now failing and saw several S Stock with these unlit yesterday. Are roller blinds and set number 'books' really so outdated? That's really disappointing. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 14:25:20 GMT
I don't see what is wrong with a blind, its quite hard to break, doesn't cost as much to produce as an LED display, requires little maintenance, can be read in direct sunlight and doesn't scroll across, making it more to the point. Where has common sense gone?
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Apr 13, 2012 14:42:09 GMT
@ mappman + 1
The recent obsessioion with LED and matrix destination displays is farcical. You cannot beat a blind for clarity in direct sunlight. It's become "fashionable" to employ the latest technology, but this should have been a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" and is an attempt to re-invent the wheel.
Where has common sense gone? The Met of all lines runs on the surface, does it not?? Why put on matrix displays that more often than not, cannot be read as easily as a blind?? What are they trying to prove - has someone had a bung from a matrix display maker in order to make it more difficult for the visually impaired to see where a train is going??
Bring back blinds!!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2012 15:35:18 GMT
I note a number of the destination/set number LEDs are now failing and saw several S Stock with these unlit yesterday. Are roller blinds and set number 'books' really so outdated? Its been happening like this for ages Here is an explanation by LC66 in another thread link |
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 13, 2012 16:13:25 GMT
The S Stocks are dirty on the exterior mainly because of the thick plastic frame bits around the windows. I think it's because they are new and this will not happen as much as they get older S Stock all the way lol! |
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Bring on the S7's!!!!!!!!
