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Post by vic09 on Apr 4, 2012 14:41:12 GMT
I was on a D stock the other day and they really, really dont need replacing. They can easily go another 10-15 years. Does anyone know why TFL are getting rid of them so early into thier refurbishment? If you compare them to the state of the C Stocks what look like they have gone through a world war, then it seems as they are wasting there money. There spacious and theres tones of them! If TFL new the S Stock was coming, (what they did) why spend millions refurbishing them? I know that there was a lot of problems with gun crime down the eastern end of the line, and drivers wanting to strike, but could they not just have replaced the windows. They also seem to make the District line with there big single doors ;D.
Do you Agree with it??
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Apr 4, 2012 14:54:26 GMT
+ 1
Well said.
It almost suggests . . . . errm, ........a "financial inducement" somewhere in the decision making process. We are told how short money is, and yet money can always be found for the unnecessary.
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Post by vic09 on Apr 4, 2012 15:12:10 GMT
Exactly!!! Fares going constantly up all the time, and there buying trains what don't need to be here! The D stock refurbishment was designed to actully last 20 years not 4!! im sure the S stock will last 4 years (NOT)!!!  |
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 4, 2012 15:53:45 GMT
I know the D's are in a really good state and have only just been refurbed, but surely it is more cost effective in the long run to replace them with the S Stock as then the whole of the sub-surface network will be run by one type of stock, meaning they will be easier to maintain and find replacement parts for. It should also be remembered that the D's were built in the late 70s, early 80's meaning they are old. I know there not old compared to other rolling stock on LUL, but they are still old. Furthermore LUL can make money by selling the D's onto other companies for use on other lines such as the Harrogate Line. The D's won't be going for sometime yet anyway as the Met still has to be finished with S Stock's and then the Circle and Hammersmith and City. This will take at least another 2/3 years and by that time the D's will be a little older |
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2012 17:03:58 GMT
I was on a D stock the other day and they really, really dont need replacing. They can easily go another 10-15 years. Does anyone know why TFL are getting rid of them so early into thier refurbishment? If you compare them to the state of the C Stocks what look like they have gone through a world war, then it seems as they are wasting there money. There spacious and theres tones of them! If TFL new the S Stock was coming, (what they did) why spend millions refurbishing them? I know that there was a lot of problems with gun crime down the eastern end of the line, and drivers wanting to strike, but could they not just have replaced the windows. They also seem to make the District line with there big single doors ;D. Do you Agree with it?? One word: ATO The D stock cannot be converted to Automatic train operation so it has to go! That's it, shocking as it is! The D stock is a fine train but it cannot run with the S stock signal upgrade. The last D stock will run in 2016 I expect, and by then it will be 35 years old. Not bad. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 17:33:21 GMT
ATO is a long way away yet on SSL
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kabsonline
Best SSL Train: S Stock Best Tube Train: 92 Stock
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Post by kabsonline on Apr 4, 2012 17:43:03 GMT
Preperation needs to be made now, especially with the introduction of the S Stock. There is no point in needing new trains for the District for ATO in a few years when they can just get S Stocks now. It is much cheaper providing the line with S Stocks now instead of waiting for a few years when new trains are needed for ATO, having to design them and get them built etc. will cost a lot more than just replacing the current fleet now with a universal SSL train. As metman said by the time the D's are replaced, they will be 35 years old which is not a bad life span for a train! |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2012 17:48:01 GMT
ATO should be 2018-2020? The D stock has a good few years left, enjoy them because like the A stock, they will soon go.  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 20:04:05 GMT
I am not saying for one moment that it was the wrong thing to do, but it would had been nice if the A stock and C stocks were replaced, then the 1973 stock followed by the D stock.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 20:07:43 GMT
ATO should be 2018-2020? The D stock has a good few years left, enjoy them because like the A stock, they will soon go. I like the idea of seeing the return of the Chesham shuttle with double ended D stock 3 car units. Everytime I happen to take a trip on Bakerloo line 1972 MKII, I feel it's special and has to be appreciated whilst they are still around. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 20:10:30 GMT
1973 stock were ahead of their time imo, theyve easily got more than 10years left
The single leaf doors on D stock have sealed their fate tbh
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 20:38:43 GMT
Dear Bronzeonion,
I agree with your comments, the D stock were designed with declining passenger numbers and economy in mind in contrast to today. I did hear about that there was a proposal of having all double ended units and they would split at Turnham Green with one unit going down each branch.
However, things may change again with a situation in the future where things need to scale back and the S stock end up being over capacity.
The 1973s, as you say have another 10 years life, however I do think that the Piccadilly does need to maximise the capacity of the trains, which in my view would be a tube sized S stock, but with articulated bogies.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Apr 4, 2012 21:11:12 GMT
The D Stock have a lot of life in them. It will be very sad to see them go. In some ways I hope the S Stock introduction the District line is delayed by as long as possible!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 21:40:03 GMT
Dear Bronzeonion, I agree with your comments, the D stock were designed with declining passenger numbers and economy in mind in contrast to today. I did hear about that there was a proposal of having all double ended units and they would split at Turnham Green with one unit going down each branch. However, things may change again with a situation in the future where things need to scale back and the S stock end up being over capacity. The 1973s, as you say have another 10 years life, however I do think that the Piccadilly does need to maximise the capacity of the trains, which in my view would be a tube sized S stock, but with articulated bogies. Well one advantage of the early withdrawal is maybe quite a few transfers to the engineering fleet, thats my guess anyway Also, early withdrawal means the 73ts will have plenty of spare parts as the two of them share many of the same parts |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:25:17 GMT
Dear Bronzeonion, I agree with your comments, the D stock were designed with declining passenger numbers and economy in mind in contrast to today. I did hear about that there was a proposal of having all double ended units and they would split at Turnham Green with one unit going down each branch. However, things may change again with a situation in the future where things need to scale back and the S stock end up being over capacity. The 1973s, as you say have another 10 years life, however I do think that the Piccadilly does need to maximise the capacity of the trains, which in my view would be a tube sized S stock, but with articulated bogies. Well one advantage of the early withdrawal is maybe quite a few transfers to the engineering fleet, thats my guess anyway Also, early withdrawal means the 73ts will have plenty of spare parts as the two of them share many of the same parts Out of interest, what use do you think some of the D stocks would be put to in the engineering fleet? |
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Post by Alight on Apr 4, 2012 22:29:47 GMT
Well I can't see any of the D stock being replaced until 2014, so we've still got a few more years before we even begin to see change.
LU officially quote 2013 as replacement for the District line, but that doesn't necessarily mean the D stock - the Wimbledon-Edgware Road C stock will go first. In 2013, we also expect to still be seeing C stock from the Circle & Hammersmith replaced before they even consider the District line.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2012 22:34:34 GMT
Well one advantage of the early withdrawal is maybe quite a few transfers to the engineering fleet, thats my guess anyway Out of interest, what use do you think some of the D stocks would be put to in the engineering fleet? Pway staff train, SSL Weedkiller, 3rd RAT |
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Post by Deep Level on Apr 5, 2012 21:30:38 GMT
Wasn't the point of the refurbishment just because they didn't think that the D Stock in it's condition at the time would last until the replacement date?
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Apr 5, 2012 22:01:50 GMT
I think it was more an excercise in aesthetics. The previous interior had lasted 25 odd years so another ten probably wouldn't have been too difficult! Heard it said they were the last stock that was designed according to LT's expectations of quality. I couldn't comment on the robustness of the 83ts body, but certainly the 92ts must be at the bottom end of the scale. Something about 'if you want a job done properly...' ?  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 6, 2012 8:03:21 GMT
I like the current D stock interior slightly retro in appearance. Watching them pass Acton Museum depot a couple of weeks ago I could not fail to notice how clunky the D stock bogies were compared to the 73 stock
XF
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Post by vic09 on Apr 6, 2012 8:34:37 GMT
Thats another feature what I like about the D stock. Its really clunky and it just sounds like the district line. Dont know why they just do |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 7:33:16 GMT
I suppose the problem is the average Joe Bloggs would like a smooth ride. I do also like the D stock and it will be interesting if they get bought up to the Harrogate line as I will be on them all the time  |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2012 11:16:45 GMT
If left to it, D stock could easily live on another 15-20 years I would imagine. As when travelling on them the ride is fair smooth, despite the juddering on acceleration.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 27, 2012 18:36:30 GMT
I do have a soft spot for the refurbed D-Stocks. They seem very solid and I find them rather comfortable. The only gripe is the lack of speed - but I grew up in a land where metro and mainline trains do 0-45mph in 30 seconds (Japan). I ride the District between Becontree and Barking now and it takes forever to reach 40mph+. A Japanese suburban train would be cruise at 56mph where station distances are similar to that of the eastern District!
I do find the S-stock to be very modern, and I hope for "Japanese" line speeds under ATO to at least compensate for the loss of character once D-stocks are gone. I'm living in a dream world, I know.
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 28, 2012 20:14:48 GMT
The single doors should never have happened. Door failures were supposed to be reduced by only having a single door. Station stop times are far too long at busy stations and prevent a more frequent service which is needed.
The wide doors on S stock clear the platform much faster at Liverpool Street etc
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 23:08:31 GMT
I do have a soft spot for the refurbed D-Stocks. They seem very solid and I find them rather comfortable. The only gripe is the lack of speed - but I grew up in a land where metro and mainline trains do 0-45mph in 30 seconds (Japan). I ride the District between Becontree and Barking now and it takes forever to reach 40mph+. A Japanese suburban train would be cruise at 56mph where station distances are similar to that of the eastern District! I do find the S-stock to be very modern, and I hope for "Japanese" line speeds under ATO to at least compensate for the loss of character once D-stocks are gone. I'm living in a dream world, I know. An ATC type system like on the Yamanote line and Keihin Tohoku line would be much better than ATO  ;D Though I do understand, when all the platforms on the Yamanote line have the platform doors fitted, the ATC will stop the train automatically. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2012 23:13:18 GMT
I do have a soft spot for the refurbed D-Stocks. They seem very solid and I find them rather comfortable. The only gripe is the lack of speed - but I grew up in a land where metro and mainline trains do 0-45mph in 30 seconds (Japan). I ride the District between Becontree and Barking now and it takes forever to reach 40mph+. A Japanese suburban train would be cruise at 56mph where station distances are similar to that of the eastern District! I do find the S-stock to be very modern, and I hope for "Japanese" line speeds under ATO to at least compensate for the loss of character once D-stocks are gone. I'm living in a dream world, I know. The D stocks were not always slow, when new they would get up to 60+ MPH on the outer sections of the District, the C stocks also used to fly as well. The Met A stock was notorious for going off the clock. Trains were measured going southbound at Neasden up to 83.5MPH! |
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Post by Dstock7080 on Apr 29, 2012 15:44:43 GMT
The single doors should never have happened. Door failures were supposed to be reduced by only having a single door. Station stop times are far too long at busy stations and prevent a more frequent service which is needed. The wide doors on S stock clear the platform much faster at Liverpool Street etc Interestingly, looking at the maths of the doors; D6 Stock have 24 doors each 1127mm wide = 27048mm per train. S7 Stock have 21 doors, 19 at 1600mm wide, 2 at 1200mm wide = 32800mm per train. |
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 29, 2012 17:48:32 GMT
The single doors should never have happened. Door failures were supposed to be reduced by only having a single door. Station stop times are far too long at busy stations and prevent a more frequent service which is needed. The wide doors on S stock clear the platform much faster at Liverpool Street etc Interestingly, looking at the maths of the doors; D6 Stock have 24 doors each 1127mm wide = 27048mm per train. S7 Stock have 21 doors, 19 at 1600mm wide, 2 at 1200mm wide = 32800mm per train. but the D78 are singles and the S stock doubles. Not maths - it's people getting off and on |
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Post by djlynch on Apr 29, 2012 18:15:09 GMT
The single doors should never have happened. Door failures were supposed to be reduced by only having a single door. Station stop times are far too long at busy stations and prevent a more frequent service which is needed. The wide doors on S stock clear the platform much faster at Liverpool Street etc Interestingly, looking at the maths of the doors; D6 Stock have 24 doors each 1127mm wide = 27048mm per train. S7 Stock have 21 doors, 19 at 1600mm wide, 2 at 1200mm wide = 32800mm per train. I'm not sure that total door width is as meaningful a number for dwell time as the number of people who can pass through the doors at the same time. My guess is that the D-Stock doors and the S-Stock's first/last set of doors aren't really wide enough for two adults to pass through at the same time. I'm a broad-shouldered guy, so I figure that I need close to 600 mm just to fit myself through the door; add anything I have in my hands and a margin of error so I don't bang into the side of the train in my way through and I figure that the practical width I occupy is in the 700-800mm range. On the other hand, that means that even two fairly large men can pass through an S Stock's wider doors at the same time. That works out to 24 people moving through the doors of a D Stock at most and 2x1 + 19x2=40 people through an S Stock's doors, which is a vast improvement. |
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;D 
