Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2012 22:54:17 GMT
 While watching an episode of the tube recently a lady train driver walked down a tunnel a short distance from the station to get on her train to start her shift? This was on the baker look line and the first station was elephant and castle in the film. Not sure if the filming jumped any. Is this normal practice?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Apr 2, 2012 23:48:14 GMT
Yes! There are a couple of sidings beyond the platform where trains stable. Apologies if you've come by it yourself, but this map shows the tack layout of the system; at Elephant you can see the lines extend a distance beyond the platforms. carto.metro.free.fr/documents/CartoMetroLondon.v2.5.pngWelcome to the forum btw  |
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Post by 21146 on Apr 3, 2012 0:04:33 GMT
Well that shows how much of that series was carefully fabricated.
The next scene showed "Mother Mary of Bakerloo" about to leave the sidings, or so the commentary suggested, when actually the station platform wall was visible in the background so in fact she'd already got there.
NOC overseeing last train departures on CCTV? What's that all about? Never been seen by me in 34 years experience!
The NOC got a very bad reaction from other areas of Service Control on the internal LU intranet bulletin board set up for comments on the series. I would have thought the manager of that department would have stepped forward and defended his staff on that forum. To date, he hasn't.
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Post by Deep Level on Apr 3, 2012 2:46:21 GMT
I saw that on the episode and knew what was going on but one still has to ask isn't there some sort of danger in doing this?
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Post by jardine01 on Apr 3, 2012 6:14:33 GMT
yes, imagine that a driver tripped and fell onto the live rail!
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Rich32
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Post by Rich32 on Apr 3, 2012 10:03:38 GMT
Well that's unlikely as they will follow a designated walking route which will be on the other side to the posi-rail.
ALL operational staff are given full and comprehensive instruction on how to walk properly and safely on live track and due to it being safety-critical cannot pass their licence unless this can be satisfactorily demonstrated.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 3, 2012 10:40:46 GMT
To add a bit more meat to the bones..... AFAIA there Elephant & Castle has a key protection switch facility - this is a procedure that LU staff will be familiar with but in essence the basic point is the facility maintains designated signals at danger. That is yer protection. Traction current would most likely have been off when the trains were accessed, especially given that the film crew were obviously walking along the track too, though it is quite normal for drivers to be on or about the track whilst traction current is on and we do complete regular training on personal safety whilst on the track. I don't know what the exact local arrangements are at Elephant & Castle for stabling trains or getting them out again, but there will certainly be a proper procedure that the program makers chose not to show. Mind you, in fairness it is possible that LU may not have wanted certain aspects shown  |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Apr 4, 2012 1:36:44 GMT
Obviously the film crew will have had a briefing in track safety, but are they likely to have been given any formal training?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2012 9:52:43 GMT
How would staff key protection work in this case? Driver informs signaller, gets permission and then operates SKP. Puts key in pocket and walks to train. Then gets into cab and ....... ? How do they return the key to allow the signals to clear?
Surely as both trains stabled where secured with no driver in cab and their key safely in their own pocket then that is their protection?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 5, 2012 10:30:14 GMT
Those Bakerloo sidings south of E&C, does anyone know what direction they head in? (ie. what road they are under?). I've been trying to ensure that the E&C redevelopment doesn't prevent the Bakerloo from being extended and haven't got a straight answer yet...
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Apr 5, 2012 10:34:13 GMT
Those Bakerloo sidings south of E&C, does anyone know what direction they head in? (ie. what road they are under?). I've been trying to ensure that the E&C redevelopment doesn't prevent the Bakerloo from being extended and haven't got a straight answer yet... I'm pretty sure that they are under Walworth Road. There was a thread some while ago about extending the Bakerloo,and it was affirmed that the original over-runs ran in a more Eastery direction (New Kent Rd?) but that they were reconstructed to be longer and on the line of any Camberwell extension,sometime before the War. |
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Post by Harsig on Apr 5, 2012 10:59:58 GMT
How would staff key protection work in this case? Driver informs signaller, gets permission and then operates SKP. Puts key in pocket and walks to train. Then gets into cab and ....... ? How do they return the key to allow the signals to clear? Surely as both trains stabled where secured with no driver in cab and their key safely in their own pocket then that is their protection? There will be two key switches but only one key. One switch will be on the platform and one located in the tunnel adjacent to the driver's cab closest to the platform. Provided the key is inserted in one switch or the other the signals will clear. Each siding will have its own pair of key switches and these are referred to as Train Oparators Key Switches to distinguish them from general Staff Protection Key Switches. With no trains in the area the key will be in the tunnel switch. When a train stables and staff are ready to leave the train, the key is removed from the tunnel switch and they walk to the platform. On arrival the key is inserted in the platform switch and normal signalling can be resumed. Thus when staff need to re-acces the train, the key is available to them in the platform key switch. This is removed and when they reach the train is inserted in the tunnel keyswitch, leaving it ready for the next train that stables in the siding. There will also be another (third) Staff Protection Key switch on the platform (with a different key) and this will be for use when access is required to the track for reasons other than joining or leaving a train in the sidings. In this instance the key has to be returned to the same keyswitch after use. |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 5, 2012 18:19:42 GMT
With absolute due respect railtechnician - your memory of the past still being quite vivid at times - you admit yourself that things have changed over the past 20 years....
Why is that you seem to not accept what Harsig is saying about the current arrangements at Elephant & Castle?
I have to say that if Harsig said the Bakerloo line is actually Pink, I would readily accept that he's telling the truth.......his knowledge of signalling is that good!!
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Post by bruce on Apr 5, 2012 19:04:01 GMT
AFAICR at E&C the position of the keys can be as follows, with a train in a siding the key for that siding keyswitch is in the locked platform keyswitch. With NO train in the siding the key is in the siding keyswitch. There are 2 designated platform keyswitches for use by Train Op's, one for each siding.
There are other protection keyswitches at E&C which allow staff to designated areas only.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 5, 2012 19:26:38 GMT
That's exactly what Harsig said in reply #13 on the previous page - see, he knows what he's talking about!!
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Post by bruce on Apr 5, 2012 21:43:20 GMT
I was one of the Signal Operations Managers on the Bakerloo Line and had quite a few dealings with these particular keyswitches in my time, mainly broken keys and once where the key was able to be withdrawn from the keyswitch lock before it had been operated! The key should only be able to be withdrawn from the lock once the keyswitch has been operated.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 5, 2012 23:46:17 GMT
I don't mind criticism but I take your comment as an insult, obviously my input is unhelpful and no longer required. You have mistaken the spirit of what I meant - never mind, this is the trouble with written text and no emotion behind it. |
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Post by crusty54 on Apr 6, 2012 10:01:40 GMT
A train is normally stabled in Platform 4 on Mondays to Saturdays as well as the trains in the sidings. Platform 3 is slightly shorter and space is tight in getting to the sidings if a train is stabled there.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Apr 6, 2012 19:45:58 GMT
I was one of the Signal Operations Managers on the Bakerloo Line and had quite a few dealings with these particular keyswitches in my time, mainly broken keys and once where the key was able to be withdrawn from the keyswitch lock before it had been operated! The key should only be able to be withdrawn from the lock once the keyswitch has been operated. I remember that incident well, and still have the offending key! As an aside, the idea of using keyswitches in this manner wasn't new when Elephant was resignalled in 1991; a similar system was in use in other tunnel sidings, including Brixton. Think of it being like the switches used for controlling a landing light from the landing or downstairs: The only differences are instead of the light bulb there's a relay and the switches are operated by a key. |
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