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Signal
Sept 1, 2005 17:31:19 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 1, 2005 17:31:19 GMT
 Can anyone tell me where signal A356 is on the LUL system please?
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Tom
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Signal
Sept 1, 2005 21:22:03 GMT
Post by Tom on Sept 1, 2005 21:22:03 GMT
IIRC it was a central line signal pre-resignalling. Somewhere like West Acton WB springs to mind...
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 1:00:37 GMT
Post by igelkotten on Sept 2, 2005 1:00:37 GMT
Isn't that one of the (in)famous trick questions, like the red repeater? I seem to remember someone saying that that signal is in a classroom in a training centre somewhere, but I could of course be wrong.
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 4:24:58 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 2, 2005 4:24:58 GMT
No, no not a trick question. The reason I ask is that in a video I have there is some old film of the District Line pre 1933. There is a signal passed that is numbered S356 which would obviously be numbered A356 now and colour light. In the same scene is a tall factory chimney on the right hand side. I am wondering if it is part of the District that is now Piccadilly and would like to establish the location.
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 8:47:51 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 8:47:51 GMT
Is it a four-track area or a two-track area? The 3XX series sounds like it could be somewhere up on the Rayners Lane branch - I think the Hounslow branch has always been 4XX...
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 9:28:03 GMT
Post by Harsig on Sept 2, 2005 9:28:03 GMT
Is it a four-track area or a two-track area? The 3XX series sounds like it could be somewhere up on the Rayners Lane branch - I think the Hounslow branch has always been 4XX... These days at least, the Rayners Lane Branch is in the 5xx series. |
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 9:34:50 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 2, 2005 9:34:50 GMT
Well in the film it's in the two track section and a District train is passing.
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 12:11:11 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 12:11:11 GMT
Is it a four-track area or a two-track area? The 3XX series sounds like it could be somewhere up on the Rayners Lane branch - I think the Hounslow branch has always been 4XX... These days at least, the Rayners Lane Branch is in the 5xx series. Indeed. Given though that it was in the 20s, I figured that the Rayners Lane branch had a separate number series, due to its part in the electrification of LU. |
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Tom
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 12:58:05 GMT
Post by Tom on Sept 2, 2005 12:58:05 GMT
The drawings I have seen point to it being between Northfields and Acton on the WB local, but (a) the description of the area doesn't correlate to the site and (b) the lowest auto at northfields is now in the 4xx series.
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 15:50:17 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 2, 2005 15:50:17 GMT
As a s an addendum to this I forgot to mention that the section of track in the film is on a viaduct somwhere.
Please forgive a dozy old berk
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 17:44:54 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 17:44:54 GMT
Ah - then it could be the South Harrow viaduct.
Harsig once posted a signal diagram of the gasworks siding at South Harrow - perhaps it has some auto numbers on it...
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 17:50:54 GMT
Post by Tomcakes on Sept 2, 2005 17:50:54 GMT
Indeed, perhaps that would explain the S in the signal number (don't suppose anyone has a list of 1920s cabin codes?)
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 17:51:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 17:51:26 GMT
Is it a four-track area or a two-track area? The 3XX series sounds like it could be somewhere up on the Rayners Lane branch - I think the Hounslow branch has always been 4XX... The Heathrow road is 400's and very high 300's. The Rayners road is 500's |
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 19:31:15 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 19:31:15 GMT
There are still S signals on the Northern line, they work in the same way as Automatic signals, I can't remember why they are prefixed S though.
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 20:18:36 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 20:18:36 GMT
There are still S signals on the Northern line, they work in the same way as Automatic signals, I can't remember why they are prefixed S though. Because AA to AE were used for the Edgware branch north of Golders Green, IIRC. |
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Tom
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Signal
Sept 2, 2005 20:41:46 GMT
Post by Tom on Sept 2, 2005 20:41:46 GMT
According to the training delivered to Operational staff, it's because they are controlled by a different style of relay. Though I tend not to believe that.
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Deleted
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Sept 2, 2005 22:25:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 22:25:48 GMT
According to the training delivered to Operational staff, it's because they are controlled by a different style of relay. Though I tend not to believe that. LOL! I can remember one particular Instructor (years ago) telling us that we were being taught how to operate trains, how to isolate on-train defects, and the very basics of the signalling system.... but NOT how to be Signal Engineers or electricians!! |
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Deleted
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Sept 2, 2005 22:56:44 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 2, 2005 22:56:44 GMT
Because AA to AE were used for the Edgware branch north of Golders Green, IIRC. Yep, its the only place that brakes the rule that a semi cannot start with an A as that is an Automatic signal! |
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 7:58:04 GMT
Post by Harsig on Sept 3, 2005 7:58:04 GMT
Ah - then it could be the South Harrow viaduct. Harsig once posted a signal diagram of the gasworks siding at South Harrow - perhaps it has some auto numbers on it... This is the link you are referring to www.geocities.com/idsmesig/ForumPictures/RaynersLane1935.jpgAs you will see, and as I stated earlier in this thread, the Rayners Lane Branch Autos are in the A5xx series |
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 9:00:57 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 9:00:57 GMT
No 'S' signals were so designated because originally automatic signal were just called 'signal' and that is what the 's' stands for. LTPB changed the nonclemature in the 1930's
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 13:41:52 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 13:41:52 GMT
Right: Now having spent all the morning with magnifiers and Gawd knows what all peering a TV screen I think I can clarify things. The film is old and grainy and hard to make ot
The location is a bow girder bridge on a left curve with a tall chimney middle distance right. What I thoght was viaduct is in fact embankment. The signal is a lower quadrant semaphore with distant beneath it. The post is about 25ft high.
Now I THINK the signal plate numbers are S562 and the distant number plate LOOKS like RWL 1. Now if all that is correct where is that signal?
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Deleted
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 16:29:43 GMT
Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2005 16:29:43 GMT
Right: Now having spent all the morning with magnifiers and Gawd knows what all peering a TV screen I think I can clarify things. The film is old and grainy and hard to make ot The location is a bow girder bridge on a left curve with a tall chimney middle distance right. What I thoght was viaduct is in fact embankment. The signal is a lower quadrant semaphore with distant beneath it. The post is about 25ft high. Now I THINK the signal plate numbers are S562 and the distant number plate LOOKS like RWL 1. Now if all that is correct where is that signal? RWL1 sounds like an outer home somewhere on the DR near Acton Town - WL is the IMR code for the area. And the original embankments between Turnham Green and Acton Town could have been two-track... Ah - then it could be the South Harrow viaduct. Harsig once posted a signal diagram of the gasworks siding at South Harrow - perhaps it has some auto numbers on it... This is the link you are referring to www.geocities.com/idsmesig/ForumPictures/RaynersLane1935.jpgAs you will see, and as I stated earlier in this thread, the Rayners Lane Branch Autos are in the A5xx series Indeed, thanks Harsig. Do you have any pre-LPTB signalling info for the TRG - ACT track section before it was quadrupled? Based on what Q8 said it's possible that his mystery shot is somewhere near Acton. |
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Phil
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 16:40:38 GMT
Post by Phil on Sept 3, 2005 16:40:38 GMT
Is it worth q8 posting a link to his original picture (however bad)? With the route knowledge some of our members have I guess one of them could identify the location.
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 17:14:07 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 17:14:07 GMT
Is it worth q8 posting a link to his original picture (however bad)? With the route knowledge some of our members have I guess one of them could identify the location.[/quote]
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I would if I could Phil but it's on a videotape
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 17:17:37 GMT
Post by q8 on Sept 3, 2005 17:17:37 GMT
No TOK the topography is all wrong. There is no sign of the depot or acton works. the sidings east of AT can be seen earlier and there is no bow girder bridge in the Acton area to my knowledge. At a guess it's either the Hounslow Road or towards St Harrow way
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Tom
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Signal
Sept 3, 2005 18:25:45 GMT
Post by Tom on Sept 3, 2005 18:25:45 GMT
The numbering of the signals doesn't tie up with the east end of Acton anyway - the last District auto signal on the WB road is A564 and the first semi WL14.
Out towards South Harrow the first auto is WMX558 and towards Northfields they're in the A4xx series.
(These numbers do not seem to have changed since the resignalling of Acton in the 1930s either)
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Signal
Jan 12, 2006 0:14:20 GMT
Post by motormanmet on Jan 12, 2006 0:14:20 GMT
Regarding the 'mystery' signal:
S562 sounds like it is on the WB District approaching Acton Tn, i have an old yellow peril showing the conversion from semaphore to colour light in that area in 1951, this shows the situ after conversion, but with no 562 (564, then WL 12/13).
HOWEVER: - until the addition of the pic line in the early 1930s and reorganisation of tracks, the signals were prefixed 'S' and autos were numbered in the 3xx series. The current westbound lines were the EB and WB District, the other two being derelict (until 1932) LSWR lines. IIRC these left at Turnham Green leaving two lines only to Acton, hence approaching Acton seems to be the location. In 1932, signals here would be changed from S36x to A56x and possibly 362 never became 562 as it may have been 'lost' - i don't see a 562 on any plan i have. Bearing in mind the massive changes at Acton in 1932, the numbering of signals pre-1932 bears no resembalance to post-1932 numbering, so it is very likely S362 was the last auto, WL1 being the next signal.
Does this sound right? It's the only possible explination i see. S Harrow branch autos were S800 series, then A500 series from 1931/2, Hounslow line was A400 series.
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Deleted
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Signal
Jan 17, 2006 20:24:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 17, 2006 20:24:56 GMT
According to the training delivered to Operational staff, it's because they are controlled by a different style of relay. Though I tend not to believe that. Well done Tom. Despite your disbelief they were indeed operated by a different relay. S prefixes on the Northern Line about 1999 were finally refitted and the prefix became A. I have a feeling that A356 is somewhere between Acton and Earls Court on the Picc. I'll confirm that tomorrow.  |
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Deleted
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Jan 18, 2006 9:46:21 GMT
Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2006 9:46:21 GMT
I searched and was wrong, big time. I too am unable to find A356 so it's obviously on some other line. I'll keep looking.
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Signal
Jan 18, 2006 11:30:28 GMT
Post by q8 on Jan 18, 2006 11:30:28 GMT
Well if anybody with better eyesight than mine want's to see what I am referring to you can see it in the VHS/DVD 'Q stock remembered' At the start is some BW film of the District line from W Ken westwards just after [or during] the construction of the Piccadilly line extension from Hammersmith. The sidings east of Acton are clearly seen [full of stabled District trains] and shots of trains passing on a double track line too. toward then end of the sequence the signal I name is visible with the tall chimey on the right.
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Can anyone tell me where signal A356 is on the LUL system please?
