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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 11:30:01 GMT
My own travelling experience tells me that the southern bit of the Northern Line, south of Kennington, must be just about the most overcrowded bit of the Underground system. Travelling north of Camden Town on the Edgware line, by contrast, is a heavenly experience, even in the evening rush hour. So, is there any good reason why TFL could not provide an empty south-bound train from, say, Elephant & Castle, Waterloo or Kennington, every now and then in the evenings, to hoover up the crowds on the platforms at Kennington (where many trains from the Charing Cross branch end and disgorge their passengers), and especially Stockwell, where thousands of people get off the Victoria line and cram on to the dangerously overcrowded platforms, trying to get on a Northern Line train to travel further south?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 15:46:04 GMT
South of Kennington? I have never found it to be extremely overcrowded. Are you sure you didn't just travel on a day where everybody was going to some exhibition or something near one of the south Northern Line stations?
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Mar 1, 2012 16:38:36 GMT
South of Kennington? I have never found it to be extremely overcrowded. Are you sure you didn't just travel on a day where everybody was going to some exhibition or something near one of the south Northern Line stations? I think the section from Stockwell to about Clapham South is officially one of the busiest on the system in the peaks. Certainly northbound trains are crush loaded between about 0745 and 0845, and to a lesser extent in the evening peak. |
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Post by trt on Mar 1, 2012 16:44:08 GMT
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Mar 1, 2012 17:07:45 GMT
Note the pax using the fast Mets before transferring to the Jub. They're using Mets to Finchley Rd to change and this should be conclusive proof to those commissioning the map that more FAST Mets are needed
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 17:57:43 GMT
South of Kennington? I have never found it to be extremely overcrowded. Are you sure you didn't just travel on a day where everybody was going to some exhibition or something near one of the south Northern Line stations? I think the section from Stockwell to about Clapham South is officially one of the busiest on the system in the peaks. Certainly northbound trains are crush loaded between about 0745 and 0845, and to a lesser extent in the evening peak. Well, they say you learn something new every day! In that case why don't they start some Morden trains at Camden Town / Mill Hill East? No wait, I bet I can answer that myself, not enough room on the Bank branch for any more services |
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Mar 1, 2012 18:48:09 GMT
I think the section from Stockwell to about Clapham South is officially one of the busiest on the system in the peaks. Certainly northbound trains are crush loaded between about 0745 and 0845, and to a lesser extent in the evening peak. Well, they say you learn something new every day! In that case why don't they start some Morden trains at Camden Town / Mill Hill East? No wait, I bet I can answer that myself, not enough room on the Bank branch for any more services In the morning peak, the main capacity bottlenecks are Clapham South to Stockwell NB, and Borough to Moorgate NB. In the evening peak, the bottlenecks are King's Cross SB, and Elephant & Castle to Stockwell SB. Other bottlenecks are Morden, and (this may be a surprise) East Finchley to Finchley Central NB. The signalling at Stockwell SB is a weak point - the outer home is further back from the station than it needs to be (it's positioned at braking distance from the crossover, not the platform), and unlike all other stations from Kennington to South Wimbledon, there are only 2 home signals instead of 3. Combined with the fact that Stockwell is a place where dwell times are longer than usual, due to the Victoria Line interchange, and this is the main reason for blocking back through this area in the evening peak. Morden cannot reliably turn round more trains than currently run, stepping back was tried, but was generally thought to cause more problems than it solved. Nowadays additional peak trains are run into or out of Morden Depot. Finchley Central is the other major bottleneck, again due to the design of the signalling. There are some long sections on the northbound, and if a train is in the northbound Barnet platform the signalling design forces the next train to slow down earlier than normal. This in turn then heavily delays the following train due to the long sections. The arrangement is manageable because there is still a through service to MHE in the peaks, if these trains ran to Barnet then FYC would struggle to cope. |
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Post by jardine01 on Mar 1, 2012 18:53:36 GMT
is sounds like The Northern line needs a moving block signaling system will it be in operation later this year? I wish they could of done the Northern first then the jubilee line
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 18:57:09 GMT
Presumably once the signalling is upgraded in 2014 and this will be alievated. In addition as the signalling was mooted even for the Complex Northern (pending the reconstructions of Camden Town) to be able to run >30 trains per hour, you'd imagine that if a siding became availbe so it wasn't blocking platforms, around elephant and castle for example, an additional few trains would be able to run over the Southern Branch running southbound in the evening peak. Not sure if a siding is available on that part of the line though.
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North End
Beneath Newington Causeway
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Post by North End on Mar 1, 2012 19:16:36 GMT
is sounds like The Northern line needs a moving block signaling system will it be in operation later this year? I wish they could of done the Northern first then the jubilee line TBTC will do little to assist capacity at Morden. What the line needs is some additional signals approaching Stockwell SB, and a re-design of the signalling approaching Finchley Central NB. Apart from that, maybe an additional home signal at London Bridge NB, and King's Cross NB & SB. Apart from a small fraction of service controllers and managers, no staff training has started on the Northern Line yet. There are still sections of line where little TBTC equipment has been installed, and the equipment room in the new Highgate SCC is still awaiting much equipment. TBTC is still some time away on the Northern Line, thankfully. |
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Post by bassmike on Mar 1, 2012 22:37:58 GMT
and they want to put in another branch to Battersea!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2012 1:44:53 GMT
The official claim is that the Battersea branch will relieve the main branch because some people will walk/bus to Nine Elms instead of a Clapham station. I don't but that myself, and think that the branch will make a very busy line worse (especially busier North of Kennington on the city side, which affects the ability of people at London Bridge to board).
In general, the Battersea branch is a very bad idea (while unsexy, a fast tunnel to Balham then all stations to Morden would be a much better option, perhaps allowing the shorter branch to then extend away from Balham to Streatham, Earlsfield or Mitcham). But they don't have a big development area.
Borough station is also a concern. Its over capacity at peaks now, only surviving because half the arrivals choose to walk up 102 steps rather than use the lift. Put more people north of Kennington on the city side, and I expect Borough will close in the peaks.
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Post by bassmike on Mar 3, 2012 2:25:10 GMT
Why not twist the tail of the bakerloo at elephant and castle or even go via Camberwell and then take that to Battersea? It would not need a lot more tunnel than the northern scheme,and would begin and finish pretty well at the same places along with doing the bakerloo a favour.
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Post by jimini on Mar 3, 2012 10:48:03 GMT
Cheers North End, some really interesting stuff there.
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