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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2012 21:55:40 GMT
Hello ! I'm posting a thread here so that I can share updates on a project I started a few weeks ago. I fell in love with London tube last summer on a trip, staying at Piccadilly Circus, and I have been looking for some contemporary tube stock in HO scale, as I already have quite a lot of rails and french stock. As I didn't find any one (except the now non-produced awesome metromodels ones), and after landing on this thread about 3D printing a 95ts, I decided I would go that way. So I modeled a 1973 tube stock in sketchup, in pure HO scale (1/87), and sent it to Shapeways. I'm not totally satisfied with the wrap-around windows shape, but I'll try to correct it after fitting motors and everything in.    For beginning, I plan to do a 2-car train, powered by one tenshodo bogie. I'll maybe consider adding a trailer later, to do a full 3 cars, double-ended unit. My next step for the moment is to order 3 bogies kit to Metromodels, and fit them, along with the tenshodo motor, under these awfully tiny DM's. As for the layout, I think I'll start with a simple Piccadilly Circus cut-away station, probably followed by a surface station and tunnel entrance, maybe Baron's Court, or an imaginary one, as I would like to print a 1995ts too. So that's it, I'll try to post frequent updates in this thread  |
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Post by alfie on Feb 28, 2012 22:54:26 GMT
You call that simple? I'd like to see what you call hard!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 6:04:16 GMT
Well, when I said simple, I meant I'll probably do just the Piccadilly Circus platform in cutaway, not the entire station. Then I know it's probably over estimated (If this exists in English), but nothing's definitive about the layout. I'm probably going to concentrate on the 73 stock, which is already quite a tough task  |
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neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
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Post by neilw on Feb 29, 2012 13:06:59 GMT
formidable!
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Post by bruce on Feb 29, 2012 20:05:08 GMT
I can see a market for 1/76 (00 Gauge) models - if they can be produced at a reasonable price.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 20:16:04 GMT
Well, If anyone wants it, I can try to scale up the Sketchup model from HO to OO so that it can be printed in that size. in HO scale, it costed me 19 about 20€ a car, so that should be close to that in 00 scale. I also have a 95 stock in the works, though Shapeways says it will be pricier for the same size and material, I suppose I made the walls a little thicker, I'll see if I can fix that. I don't think I would have enough time to produce the complete trains themselves though as I'm not even sure I'll get one day to finish mine ;D.However, if anyone is interested, I could put the models to download on my blog, in both (HO/00) scales, and try to put up some detailed instructions and photos on how to make those little units. Just tell me  [edit] Here is a render of the current 95 stock DM's, assembled in a two DM unit :  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 29, 2012 23:04:11 GMT
I'm beginning to think that this way of producing models is the future! Superb work. There would be a market for these in OO scale as the continued popularity of the EFE 38TS proves. Does anyone fancy taking on a Sleet Loco?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 7:21:53 GMT
do you mean these ? en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_sleet_locomotives ? I could give it a try if I get some spare time, and if someone's got some plans. As for the 73 stock, I had a mail exchange yesterday with John Polley from Metromodels about the trailing bogie measurement, I should order three of them next week. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 15:56:12 GMT
Nice work Cesarparent. The wrap around windows on the cab front are the tricky part. We seem to have followed a parallel path on this '73TS. I found that printing the cab end separately at a higher definition of 0.1mm than the body seemed to work well. And the body at 1/76 scale is too big to print out in Shapeways Ultra-detail, anyway. The trick is getting it all to fit together. I chose to print out the bogies and cosmetic ones also. This has taken a couple of attempts, just to get the clearances right for the Romford wheels and bearings. This does open up a lot of modelling possibilities. Good work!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 17:13:47 GMT
...I found that printing the cab end separately at a higher definition of 0.1mm than the body seemed to work well... I didn't think about it while I designed the DM, but it seems to me that this would be the best path to follow. Just an idea, but it might even be possible to do a whole train on a modular basis, i.e. a standard "trunk" part, including the common center part of the DMs, trailers or UNDMs, and then small "ends" parts. As for the bogies, underfloor equipment and the floor itself, I decided I would do without 3D printing, as I will probably order the bogies from metromodels, and the rest is easier to do by hand than the car itself. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 17:34:10 GMT
Cesarparent, Doing a modular approach makes sense. I just drew one quarter of a carriage in Sketchup and then copied it to assemble a full trailer or DM with some adaptation for the DM driver's end for the more narrow door. One issue is the clearance under the floor for the bogie to turn. I chose to make my own bogies, so I would have some control over the clearance between the bogie and inner soul-bar for curved track. it's not a lot of room. If you are in HO you have even less room. I'm down to miner adjustments of 0.5 mm on my bogies for the next re-print, when I get back from the UK. I would expect a these models to work on nothing less than a 1.3 metre radius of track at OO scale.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 18:08:28 GMT
Yup, I know i'm going to have a hard tim trying to fit the bogies so that they can actually turn enough... I'm almost sure i'm going to change my shorts, high angle, points to some new, more realistic peco ones (12° vs 22°) ;D I'll keep you updated. That being said, Metromodels bogies are designed in a way that makes the "collar" not so high, so I still have a little hope [edit] I believe what you call "SOul bar" is the coupling bar between cars, isn't it right ? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 18:20:47 GMT
"I believe what you call "SOul bar" is the coupling bar between cars, isn't it right ?"
Sorry, "Solebar" as in longitudinal beam. I think I ended up with 0.5mm wall thickness on this piece where the wheels are mounted to allow maximum rotation of the bogies. You can only do so much in the virtual world of Sketchup. You just have to print it and see what the "real world" situation is. The couplers are another issue.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 18:27:49 GMT
Wow, 0.5mm is awfully thin ! I think it wouldn't have got out correctly with the "White, strong & flexible" material I chose. My wall are 1mm thick almost every where, except around the doors, as the little extrusion of these doors could have made the structure weaker. I'll see if everything fits.
talking about the layout, I began thinking yesterday about doing the Aldwych station's platforms, maybe linked to Holborn. Either with unrefurbished stock, as in the days the branch was still opened, or refurbished stock, as if the branch had never closed... The pro being that I could run a 3 car unit, without being unrealistic. It would abort any connection with a 1995 stock, though.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 19:03:42 GMT
Have you considered Shapeways Frosted Detail ? The Ultra detail goes down to 0.1mm, which is good for end (cab) details and the regular Frosted Detail is around ~0.2mm detail level, so 0.5mm wall thickness is attainable, with due observation of mechanical strength. See: s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb404/cyberman12/Model%20Railways/stuff/?action=view¤t=1973DM_3D.jpg The End cab is in Frosted Ultra with 0.5mmm wall thickness in the curved areas, so the main strength is its shape. Regular wall thicknesses are in the 1.5-2.5mm range. The model is in three parts where the base snaps into the main body and the DM cab is glued onto the assembly. On the question of layouts, I'm already in trouble running Standard Stock and 1992 Stock almost side by side. I have just made up fictitious names of stations and loosely (very loosely) base it on a certain era, say 60s through 90s. I also do SR, so extra complications there. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 19:30:47 GMT
Yes, I considered Frosted Detail, but I unfortunately couldn't afford the two DMs in this material. You design is impressive, I think the wrap-around windows are way better than mine ;D
For Intervale station, I already saw it on youtube ("standard stock at & around intervale", I think) and I must admit it's really impressive. Th 92 stock sure looks very good with all the modifications you added, I wish I'll get one day to have a full, two 3 cars unit long 73 or 95 stock ! Standard stock looks very well too, although I like contemporary stocks much better (I feel like I'm going to be beaten ;D).
Another possibility for me would be to do something like (but very simplified ;D) John Polley's network Abbey Road, a fictional open air station where Picc and Northern meet, and then just a cut-away Piccadilly Station. This would be a long, long work though.
Oh, and, sorry for my ignorance, but what do you call SR ? surface railways ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 19:48:24 GMT
Sorry, SR = Southern Rail. I have really gone wild here and covered the post war era up until the 90s with 466 EMUs, although am way behind on laying track for this portion of the layout. I have been doing the London Underground stuff for 20 years+ and I'm not sure if I'll ever finish. The 3D stuff has really sparked my interest (forgive the pun) in that prototype stuff like rail side boxes and cables+cable hangers can be drawn and then printed (rather than scratch built which can take lots of time and several pairs of glasses) ad infinitum. Even carriage interior can be printed as a whole such as for the Radley Models kits which come with no insides.
I often think John's philosophy of building something small but highly detailed such as Abbey Road is a better approach, and it can be made portable, where Intervale and all of its associated track can't be moved, so I'm committed to never moving house. Oh well.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 20:30:59 GMT
Well, I just searched the web for some images, I kinda like the 466 emu, I might consider adding this to the layout later... The project is starting to get bigger and bigger ;D
I suppose however that Hornby trains are in OO scale, right ? If yes, it's going to be another job for Shapeways !
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 20:47:12 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 20:51:22 GMT
Wow, it looks awesome with the lights everywhere !
Are OO stocks really bigger than HO stocks, if compared side by side ? Although it may be amplified by the fact that the only HO stock running on this layout would be a Tube stock... I didn't find any UK stock in HO scale anyway
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 21:04:24 GMT
Yes, it is physically bigger than HO where 4mm=1ft for OO. But the track (wheel gauge) is the same as HO. To my knowledge, there is no HO scale tube available on the market and suppliers such as John Polley and Radley are in the OO scale regime. Of course the magic of 3D modelling is that you can printout at any scale within the framework of the printer. I model my stuff in full-size in Sketchup, then shrink it down to 1:76th, so detail is preserved. It is trivial to scale it.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2012 21:19:29 GMT
Yup, that's how I proceed too for modeling. For OO/HO scale compromise, I think it's a good thing, it will slow me down in my want to do a layout always bigger and bigger !
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Post by norbitonflyer on Mar 1, 2012 23:29:58 GMT
Wow, it looks awesome with the lights everywhere ! Are OO stocks really bigger than HO stocks, if compared side by side ? Although it may be amplified by the fact that the only HO stock running on this layout would be a Tube stock... I didn't find any UK stock in HO scale anyway As I understand it, OO (4mm/foot) was developed because British-outline (and loading-gauge) models could not be built in HO scale (3.5mm/foot) because motors etc designed for continental or American-outline HO models wouldn't fit. British models were therefore scaled up to accomodate the motors (and still fit HO scale bridges etc). Both use 16.5mm gauge track, which in HO scales to standard gauge, but which in OO scale scales to about 4ft 1.5 inches. Standard gauge in true OO scale is nearly 19mm. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 9:15:11 GMT
So that's done, I ordered the metromodels trailing bogies yesterday !
I just wanted to know, does anybody wants me to put the 3D models available to download ?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 16:47:01 GMT
"I just wanted to know, does anybody wants me to put the 3D models available to download ?"
It certainly would do no harm. You've beaten me to it!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 4, 2012 23:27:19 GMT
Okay, so there it is : aviaplanet.free.fr/downloads/It's the last two items, under the "Models" category. As for now, there are only two versions of the 73 stock (HO and OO), the 95 stock will need a few more tweaks before release |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 21:17:21 GMT
Wow, it looks awesome with the lights everywhere ! Are OO stocks really bigger than HO stocks, if compared side by side ? Although it may be amplified by the fact that the only HO stock running on this layout would be a Tube stock... I didn't find any UK stock in HO scale anyway As I understand it, OO (4mm/foot) was developed because British-outline (and loading-gauge) models could not be built in HO scale (3.5mm/foot) because motors etc designed for continental or American-outline HO models wouldn't fit. British models were therefore scaled up to accomodate the motors (and still fit HO scale bridges etc). Both use 16.5mm gauge track, which in HO scales to standard gauge, but which in OO scale scales to about 4ft 1.5 inches. Standard gauge in true OO scale is nearly 19mm. A similar situation exists in N scale where the British prototype models from Graham Farish are 1:148 scale rather than the normal N scale of 1:160 used Marklin, Atlas etc. and as a further complication the Japanese use 1:150 to model 3'6" gauge trains. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 14, 2012 23:23:29 GMT
I saw this model at Acton last weekend and was very impressed
XF
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Post by Deleted on Mar 15, 2012 12:36:21 GMT
Well, I suppose you saw Cyberman's one, as I unfortunately hadn't been able to come to Acton at anytime ;D, and I must say his 73ts is quite better than mine.
I got the trailing bogies from John Polley last week, and fitted the small brass bearing, and god, these are perfect ! I made some test with a mockup chassis made from balsa wood, and the fit perfectly under the body frame, and even accept to go through my awful 22° points.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2012 0:33:25 GMT
@ cesarparent
looks quite good!! i am searching a long time for that tube model for my underground showcase! Will it be produced?? I am very interested!! let me know soon, what your plans are!
Thanks a lot!!!
best regards
Martin
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