Timetable Update

All these shiny new Aluminium A Stock Trains are ridiculous - no compartments and 2+3 seating it's and outrage! Plus they've taken away all the Fast Services on the Uxbridge and Watford branches... We will never use the metropolitan line again...

All sounds terribly familiar to me...

This sums it up perfectly. LU must have known they were planning this when they implemented the Chesham through service, so why wasn't it mentioned then? This was quietly rolled out with a bare minimum of publicity. User groups were informed but LU didn't have the courtesy to tell their customers directly. How many passengers even know they have a user group?

I imagine LU have some idea as to what they intend the post-upgrade service to be...an FOI request or two may not go amiss here. Yes, FOI requests divert resources from LUs core job, but if they have decided secrecy and non-communication is how they intend to operate, then it's the only option.

Met control, I too appreciate your contributions here and my annoyance over the timetable issue certainly is not directed at you.

This represents more than just a single timetable change; it is as much about what LU management think is an acceptable way to treat customers and that is why I'm so annoyed with them.

Except that's the problem - it's not just about market forces is it? And if, like me, you live in Chesham, then how does Chiltern give you a choice? Last time I looked, they didn't run to Chesham...

If it were down to purely market forces, then a large chunk of UK railways would close down. They don't because of the wider economic value they bring; somehow, needs are balanced between groups of users based on other criteria.

My concern here is LU's method of deciding on how they will balance that need and its lack of transparency. No ordinary customers were consulted over this, no opportunity was given to have their voice heard. Nowhere on Chesham station is there a prominent display saying, 'we are planning a new timetable, if you would like your views heard then please contact your local user group, details as follows...'. The process seems secretive, inconsistent and completely without reference to customers' views.

According to the Met line management team who came out to Chesham in January (after the timetable had been implemented), they simply looked at station entry/exit numbers - no surveying of passengers and so no understanding of how people think or what they want. When asked if anyone had expressed a view that the timetable should be changed, they couldn't answer. They also admitted that they knew the service would be worse for Chesham/Amersham customers; strangely, they didn't feel the need to say this clearly in advance and provide an opportunity for consultation.

So the impression of back room decisions, dishonest reasoning and a 'dont care what you think' attitude is firmly stuck in the minds of those who live north of Rickmansworth. This is a shame and was unnecessary.

Watching 'The Tube' on TV demonstrates how good so many LU staff are; those of us on this forum know that as do most passengers who see the same staff day in, day out at their local station. The Met line timetable has been a fiasco in terms of communication, consultation and implementation. Worst of all, it has left Met line users at the north end of the Met with an off-peak service which is bordering on the unusable.

To be honest, I'm not sure about that. LU are upgrading the line for the new trains and have spent a lot of money on it so far on signalling and power upgrades. I doubt they'd have done that if they were planning to withdraw. Given the revised budget restrictions, I think they would have pulled the upgrade works by now.

My feeling is that the revised service is more about budget cuts. They had to save money but maintain the service on the local lines via Northwood, Pinner etc. Instead if actually saying this, they are trying to sell it as an improvement with all sorts of ridiculous reasoning. Can't hep but wonder if the London Mayoral elections had anything to do with it...

Have Chiltern got enough stock to serve Chesham? Down here we have a 158 rostered to do the Brockenhurst - Lymington shuttle. It arrives Monday morning off a placing run from Salisbury via Southampton and then goes home Fridays. In the meantime it stables at Bournemouth TMD. At weekends a 450 runs the service. The six-mile shuttle [similar to the Chesham branch] each way clearly does not use up that much fuel although the engines idle for some time at either terminus. Acceleration is not as good as the 450s and nowhere near that of the 3-CIGs.

There was once a 06XX through service from Eastleigh and return at around 22XX that placed the electric unit on to the branch but no through services have run since. It is purely a shuttle service only. That means say two dedicated units MFO. If the Chesham branch goes over to DMMUs, presumably it will have to revert to a shuttle again or will there be enough extra trains to operate a through service? Will the local burghers complain of slower performance, noiser diesels, excessive idling at Chesham and possibly Chalfont?

I get your point, but many people who use Chesham will just drive to High Wycombe, Beaconsfield, Berkhamsted etc and use the services there. It probably will be quicker to use take a train from a station miles away than catch the Met. Berkhamsted for instance has between 4tph off peak to London taking either 31 or 38 mins. Chesham has 2tph both taking over an hour to reach Baker St, a huge difference. Mets from Amersham take just over 50 mins but at least they have the 40 min Chiltern service. Of course, instead of taking the train, others will drive to London not minding the extra cost.



Chiltern should have enough stock for the Chesham shuttle. They recently acquired another Class 121. A Class 121 would be suitable to work the branch. I doubt Chiltern have enough stock to provide a regular service to/from London due to their future Oxford service.

Does it go to Bournemouth TMD every weekday night as, although I have seen a few 158's passing between New Milton and Sway, I haven't noticed this one yet?

Off topic - sorry.

Sorry to keep dragging this up, but I find it ridiculous that just because some people in Pinner see trains passing, that they must be required to stop, despite the fact they had a service every 10 minutes, which is pretty generous for an outer suburban location. I don't see passengers on the Shenfield Metro services complaining when they see all the Greater Anglia expresses passing stops like Gidea Park and Chadwell Heath etc. This also happens to have a service every 10 minutes. I feel the reason people thought tubes must stop on the Met is because people expect tube services to all be as frequent as the Victoria Line is. It's ridiculous. We now have increased journey times to and from various destinations on the Met, such as Moor Park and Harrow on the Hill, I observe trains frequently catching up with each other at Harrow, which would be alright if they made use of both lines, but that doesn't happen. The new S stocks are adequate though, but the timetables has been ruined.

I always thought 6 tph off peak at North Harrow was good enough. Better than many years ago when we only had 4 tph.
It will be interesting to see what timetable patterns are planned for when the ATC is implemented. Will the higher line capacity mean the return of fast trains, or will the higher train performance and reduced inter station run times mean we stick with mostly All Stations trains?

Good shout. It is a very long time, although LUL will argue there is a WC at Baker Street plat2/5.
Still, it is not ideal.

6tph is perfect for the Watford branch, 8tph does not really achieve anything. I remember 4tph on the Watford line and it was 3tph later in the day!

Mappman1000 beat me too it with a reply about toilets although if I was going to break the journey I would prefer to do so at Harrow as there is the back up of both the shopping centre opposite and the bus station if the LUL loos are out of order. The only trouble is that you end up with two fares for your journey.

And on another subject:

But you have your democratic control by choosing the mayor - or would if you didn't live at the end of the Met line. Give us a transport authority covering the old LPTB area with full local authority representation. Maybe we could get the same weird things that London has like buses after tea time!

Why should a 95-year-old be expected to get off the train and wait half an hour for another train? Make the journey quicker as it was before and the problem goes away.

They closed the toilets at Stratford because of vandalism..

Romford can't accomodate 12 car trains - I found this out once when I hopped on a Clacton service at Liverpool Street. It was 12 cars, and I was in the rear 4. On arrival at Romford, the platform was out of reach. Luckily, it was a slam door train, so a quick hop down onto the ballast and walk up to the platform took place, Naughty I know, but a few others did the same!

Stratford is the only station between Liverpool Street and Shenfield that can accomodate 12 car trains.