rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Feb 10, 2012 19:52:19 GMT
<snip> It must be remembered that although the line to Chesham is a single track there are 2 platforms, albeit one has fallen into disuse. If LU could bring this back into use then they could run 2 trains down the line in quick succession (a couple of minutes apart) and then back again. Do you have *any* idea of the cost of that suggestion? How about time interval working? No costs on extra signalling gubbins then! ;D |
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Post by causton on Feb 10, 2012 23:07:51 GMT
Initially it was done by electric token and later by track circuits. All now removed. There used to be an additional run round track in the obviously large space adjcent to platform 1. The tracks ran beyond and into the car park. Must have been hard to get out of the spaces in that one!  |
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Post by citysig on Feb 11, 2012 20:12:22 GMT
As for morning delays, this is (at present, but soon to be solved) due to operational problems within Neasden depot related to the Jubilee Line. How is this going to be solved ? Some re-jigging of the timetable as far as the depot is concerned. However, this will coincide with the introduction of the Jubilee Line's new timetable towards the end of March. Until then, some local tweaks, and some common-sense tactics by both lines have been employed. |
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Post by citysig on Feb 11, 2012 20:16:57 GMT
Got to Wembley Park and there where lots of people on the other Platform which was advertising a Semi Fast Amersham service. It duly came and .........yes you guessed , it didn't stop it was a Fast. Left quite a few unhappy passengers and two very embarrassed Station staff. Even the driver looked suprised as he flew past. Not the end of the of the World but.  Correct, this timetable won't please everyone i know that, but its upsetting quite a lot to the extent that people are driving to other stations . I know its had to believe but there you go . Carbon Footprint eat your Heart out. Cheers Unfortunately, we generally advise stations south of Harrow to "push" their customers to Harrow. There are many occasions where stopping an ex-depot train (which is what your train in this occasion may have been) will snarl up recovery of the rest of the service, so it is pushed forward to Harrow to enter service. I'm sorry the information on this occasion was wide of the mark. Trust me, head as far as Harrow before changing. Anything going on the branches will either arrive or start there. Management (all the way up) are aware of the choices in front of them with regards to this timetable. They know that they either stick it out and end up with an ultimately more reliable timetable (which it is) or revert to something from before. They have heard the complaints. They know - more than me - how many people are upset and are turning to other forms of transport. I cannot comment further really... |
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Post by citysig on Feb 11, 2012 20:21:10 GMT
That is true and I would hope most people realise that. However, there has to be a balance with what is reasonable for passengers who live further out, especially at Amersham and Chesham where the distance to London is greater as well as looking at sheer volume of station use. This was stated at the Chesham meeting in January and a question asked about what qualitative research had been undertaken to back up the quantitative stats analysis; no business (or manager) that wants to survive would dream of making a major change without undertaking qualitative (i.e. actually asking people) analysis. The LU reps were unable to tell us what had been done and it seemed pretty clear that, in fact, there had been none. It looks very much as if this is someone's personal baby or a dictat from above. Who knows, considering the lack of transparency? As it is, the off peak service for Amersham/Chesham branch users is now frustratingly slow and borderline unusable. I have, on several occasions, decided against going into London because I cannot face the tedious and boring trundle into London on an all stations service. An 8.40am doctors appointment earlier this week meant that I was unable to get to work until 10.45 - no delays, no problems; it just takes that long. I don't see this as reasonable, sorry. See my last paragraph above. As I have said so many times, this wasn't really LUL or TFL who changed things - though of course they had a jolly big hand in it when it was decided. One or two commuter groups campaigned long and hard (as they did in Chesham) for a change to services. They felt that they were under-served by our service, and following a successful campaign they won an increase in services. Chesham got it's through services. Pinner and Northwood got their increase in service. It is, I suppose, up to the next powerful commuter group to create the next change... ... but be quick because the final parts of May 2013 are about done. |
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Post by cooperman on Feb 13, 2012 21:41:35 GMT
Got to Wembley Park and there where lots of people on the other Platform which was advertising a Semi Fast Amersham service. It duly came and .........yes you guessed , it didn't stop it was a Fast. Left quite a few unhappy passengers and two very embarrassed Station staff. Even the driver looked suprised as he flew past. Not the end of the of the World but. Correct, this timetable won't please everyone i know that, but its upsetting quite a lot to the extent that people are driving to other stations . I know its had to believe but there you go . Carbon Footprint eat your Heart out. Cheers Unfortunately, we generally advise stations south of Harrow to "push" their customers to Harrow. There are many occasions where stopping an ex-depot train (which is what your train in this occasion may have been) will snarl up recovery of the rest of the service, so it is pushed forward to Harrow to enter service. I'm sorry the information on this occasion was wide of the mark. Trust me, head as far as Harrow before changing. Anything going on the branches will either arrive or start there. Management (all the way up) are aware of the choices in front of them with regards to this timetable. They know that they either stick it out and end up with an ultimately more reliable timetable (which it is) or revert to something from before. They have heard the complaints. They know - more than me - how many people are upset and are turning to other forms of transport. I cannot comment further really... Many Thanks for the reply. Also i would like to extend my thanks to you and your colleagues for maintaining the Met, in what can only be described as treacherous conditions on Sunday the 5th of February (4-5 inches of Snow) . Thank you  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2012 14:26:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 18:12:07 GMT
Met line dire tonight. Is this the promised improved reliability brought to us by the new slow-as-possible timetable?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 18:34:18 GMT
On the website it says "Good Service" - not that that means anything.
So, the "mushroom" system of information appears to be alive and well, then!!
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Post by allan60 on Feb 20, 2012 18:37:11 GMT
Does anyone know when the next met timetable (WWT 332) due to come into operation? And will the Fast services return?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 20, 2012 18:41:30 GMT
Does anyone know when the next met timetable (WWT 332) due to come into operation? And will the Fast services return? May 2013? |
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Post by citysig on Feb 21, 2012 10:45:29 GMT
WTT332 should be December this year, and will be more or less the same as it is now. WTT 333 (if 332 comes in December) will be May 2013, and having seen a draft copy of it, I'm afraid if you're looking for a return of fast services all day.... you'll be disappointed.
However, that is a long way off yet, so still time to form your own Commuter Group and get some campaigning done ;D
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Post by citysig on Feb 21, 2012 10:49:11 GMT
Met line dire tonight. Is this the promised improved reliability brought to us by the new slow-as-possible timetable? A signalling failure prior to the evening peak, plus a later intermittent points failure, plus a whole string of other minor events (including some real jokers who thought it would be great to wedge empty drinks bottle/cans in some doors on several trains at Moor Park) served to (somehow) keep the Met running 15-25 late all over during the whole peak and well into the evening. I can assure you that a whole heap of work was done behind the scenes to ensure not too many gaps appeared north of Harrow - but this was sometimes at the expense of the city area. Can I ask, just for reference and in all seriousness, where you travelled and at what time, and what it was that made you class the service as dire. |
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Post by knap on Feb 21, 2012 13:52:22 GMT
I was caught in the delays as was my wife. TFL web site continued to say good service, despite message at Finchley Road saying there was / had been a signal failure in the City and some trains were thus starting at Harrow. It took me about 30 minutes to get from Finchley Road to Harrow, our driver said there was a signal problem at Harrow and we stopped started all the way from Wembley to Harrow. My wife also seemed to take 30 minutes from Wembley to Harrow, both journeys between 5:30 and 6 ish. The Oyster web site has not got our journey times yet, but the delays were long enough for us both to want to claim a refund. My wife tried to catch a Chesham service at Wembley which despite being announced did not stop there. I was on a following Chesham service that left Finchley Road at about 5:35
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Post by citysig on Feb 21, 2012 17:19:11 GMT
 :-[Just to correct myself earlier, there will not be a new WTT in May as there is something called the Olympics. WTT332 will be December, and will still see all-stations services.
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Post by citysig on Feb 21, 2012 17:27:57 GMT
I was caught in the delays as was my wife. TFL web site continued to say good service, despite message at Finchley Road saying there was / had been a signal failure in the City and some trains were thus starting at Harrow. It took me about 30 minutes to get from Finchley Road to Harrow, our driver said there was a signal problem at Harrow and we stopped started all the way from Wembley to Harrow. My wife also seemed to take 30 minutes from Wembley to Harrow, both journeys between 5:30 and 6 ish. The Oyster web site has not got our journey times yet, but the delays were long enough for us both to want to claim a refund. My wife tried to catch a Chesham service at Wembley which despite being announced did not stop there. I was on a following Chesham service that left Finchley Road at about 5:35 The Chesham your wife missed ended up being reversed at Rickmansworth, and was never going to stop at Wembley. This information was sent out from our room but clearly failed to be passed on. We did indeed have minor problems in the Harrow area at that time, which didn't help us recover the already delayed service (after the Aldgate problems). I'm sorry that we couldn't do much more. Having said that, there never were any significant gaps in any of our services except if you were stood on, say, Moorgate platform and were waiting for a direct Chesham. At no point, that we were aware of, did any train take much more than the scheduled time between Finchley Road/Wembley to Harrow. Your journey time at the time of the problems sounds feasible. However, did your wife remain on Platform 1 at Wembley and was not advised to cross to platform 2? Or was the majority of her journey time spent waiting for - rather than being on a train? |
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Post by knap on Feb 22, 2012 11:02:04 GMT
The Chesham your wife missed ended up being reversed at Rickmansworth, and was never going to stop at Wembley. This information was sent out from our room but clearly failed to be passed on. We did indeed have minor problems in the Harrow area at that time, which didn't help us recover the already delayed service (after the Aldgate problems). I'm sorry that we couldn't do much more. Having said that, there never were any significant gaps in any of our services except if you were stood on, say, Moorgate platform and were waiting for a direct Chesham. At no point, that we were aware of, did any train take much more than the scheduled time between Finchley Road/Wembley to Harrow. Your journey time at the time of the problems sounds feasible. However, did your wife remain on Platform 1 at Wembley and was not advised to cross to platform 2? Or was the majority of her journey time spent waiting for - rather than being on a train? I don't know if she crossed to platform 2, one has to make a decision to either dash up and down the stairs or wait for the next train. Being registered blind make such decisions interesting! Thanks or all the information, I think it boils down to what the definition of a delay is. Certainly her journey was delayed by enough to enable a charter refund claim, but in the general scheme of things the over all delays for the line may not be seen as too bad. I know my train crawled and stopped and started between Wembley and Harrow and was much slower than usual. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 11:52:46 GMT
I know my train crawled and stopped and started between Wembley and Harrow and was much slower than usual. That's because thanks to the most useless timetable ever on the Met, there are too many trains on the local lines. Going by what my colleague says, we're stuck with this for a while. Maybe within that time someone will see sense and return us to a timetable that doesn't just suit the few who moan, and utilises all available tracks on the Met line! ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 17:29:32 GMT
I know my train crawled and stopped and started between Wembley and Harrow and was much slower than usual. That's because thanks to the most useless timetable ever on the Met, there are too many trains on the local lines. Going by what my colleague says, we're stuck with this for a while. Maybe within that time someone will see sense and return us to a timetable that doesn't just suit the few who moan, and utilises all available tracks on the Met line! ;D ;D At last some common sense is being written. I am sure that MetControl is right in his earlier statement that a whole heap of work is being done to try to correct the problems but even the most dedicated control room staff can't force a quart into a pint pot which this timetable demands. The situation is impossible but it hasn't only been caused by pandering to the moaners because the pressure groups didn't ask for fast line traffic to be transferred to the slow lines. Indeed Chesham and Pinner folk are themselves now suffering as much as everybody else. The LU management strategy of slowing down the service in an endeavour to improve reliability has actually made it worse twice over, it is slower and less reliable. There is only one answer and that is to bring all the lines back into service with interchange between fast and slow services at HoH as in the old timetable. Hopefully a senior LU executive will come onto this forum and have the guts to admit that they got it wrong. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 18:10:31 GMT
I must agree with ohmslaw that the decision not to use the fast lines during the daytime was totally misplaced.
Trains from Watford, Chesham and Amersham should use the fast lines all day. Also, they should terminate at Baker Street, so they would be less affected by any delays between Aldgate and Baker Street, thus making it easier to maintain a more reliable service to the less frequently served branches.
Trains from Uxbridge should serve all stops and run through to Aldgate. As this is a frequent service, any delays would have less overall impact.
Completely separating the two lines except for the section between Wembley Park and Baker Street would make each effectively self-contained and reduce the potential mpact of problems in one area affecting the whole line.
Why don't those in control admit they got it SERIOUSY WRONG?
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Feb 22, 2012 18:35:41 GMT
@ dalesman
You asked "Why don't those in control admit they got it SERIOUSY WRONG?" but you already know the answer to this, (which is), because they never admit to anything, being unable to distinguish the difference between "importance" and "self importance". Self important people do not make mistakes which is why they have never admitted to obvious planning errors before, won't do now, and never will in the future. Reversing the error of timetabling would be equal to an admission of getting this wrong.
Of course, you have come up with the obvious answer, but transport planners never live anywhere near the damage they cause to the public. I have written screeds on this on other threads.
200 years ago, before people regularly used 4 letter words in everyday language, there was a popular curse "May all poxes cluster upon you and may your bowels fall out". Well, if I were ever to meet one of these decision makers or politicians who destroyed the Great Central and other parts of our rail network, I would resurrect that particular curse.
Your case about the current timetable is so obviously one where somebody should have the balls to say "I/We got that wrong. - We'll take on board what you (and others) have told us". There is more chance of Forest Green Rovers winning the F.A. Cup (even though I'm pleased to see them having their best ever season), than transport planners' admitting making a mistake
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Post by Deleted on Feb 22, 2012 20:26:23 GMT
May all poxes cluster upon you and may your bowels fall out Wow, what a wonderful phrase, mind if I borrow it??? Obviously, I agree totally with the rest of your post. However, be warned, an old school buddy of mine is an ardent Forest Green fan; you may be the subject to your own curse! ;D |
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Post by superteacher on Feb 22, 2012 20:34:14 GMT
Management never get things wrong!!!! Hmmmmmm!
It's a shame that nowadays, the service is designed around meeting targets which are of no benefit or relevance to the travelling public. The silly "snapshot of trains in service" is one example - it doesn't matter if every train on the line is being held in the platform, they still count as being in service!
It doesn't seem to matter how many people complain - the management always think they know best, and as someone else pointed out, they probably don't have to travel on the services that they have personally ruined.
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Feb 22, 2012 20:46:21 GMT
Dear ohmslaw, you don't need to borrow it from me, as l said, it was a common curse 200 years ago. And as far as your mate is concerned, I am a FGR supporter too. (I knew there was another one!) Does he try and smuggle meat products into the ground?? (Only FGR people would understand this comment).
V
Dear superteacher, you are 99% correct and would have got full marks if you'd mentioned "Health & Safety" somewhere in your answer. These people compete with the other apparatchiks who have the power to suspend services for any possible reasons, and then leave it all to the poor T/Ops and station staff (where extant) to deal with all the flak from pax whilst they themselves hide in their secret rooms to become "unavailable" to those who are trying to keep the public informed of what is going on.
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metman
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5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
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Post by metman on Feb 22, 2012 22:22:12 GMT
I agree with much what is being said. I'd say I don't like the chop change nature of the service either. I think I'd have kept 2tph for both Amersham and Chesham - (fast) Baker Street and 6tph Watford A/S Baker St and had the capacity where it is really needed 8tph Uxbridge-Aldgate A/S.
This gives Harrow-Amersham/Chesham/Watford a decent tph service which is appropriate and allows all Uxbridge trains to run to Aldgate at the same tph it does now. Aldgate can handle a train every 7-8 mins easy.
It now means that Harrow-Baker Street receives a service of 18tph, better than now but with only 14tph serving Northwick Park and Preston Road (still a good number!)
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 11:02:43 GMT
Going home from work ill on all station Chesham service. It actually started from Baker Street and ran fast to Harrow. Then sat there for ten mins waiting for a driver. Now we're trundling off to Chesham all stations.
If Met Line management don't find themselves being held to account over this ridiculous timetable that nobody wants, I'll be very surprised. There has been a complete lack of transparency over this, quite a contrast to the Chesham through service consultation. The justification of it is weak or non-existent.
Personally it looks like a way of implementing cuts without admitting it. The service is now slow, tedious and unacceptable. Berkhamsted to Euston, 30 mins; High Wycombe to Marylebone, 30 mins; Chesham to Baker Street, 70 mins. Quite ridiculous.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 13:50:39 GMT
Personally it looks like a way of implementing cuts without admitting it. The service is now slow, tedious and unacceptable. Berkhamsted to Euston, 30 mins; High Wycombe to Marylebone, 30 mins; Chesham to Baker Street, 70 mins. Quite ridiculous. You have hit the nail on the head. 30 minutes or thereabouts is the current accepted journey time from the popular London commuter towns. Eg Stevenage, Hemel, Luton, Maidenhead, Reading, Woking are all 30 minutes; a bit further out Guildford and Chelmsford are 40 minutes. Only places as far out as Colchester and Brighton take an hour and, don't forget, they are all on trains that, even if crowded, are warm and with more comfortable seats. The old A stock was designed as a commuter train specifically for the longer journey but this concept has been abandoned with the S Stock; even its rated speed has been reduced. It is clear that LU is dropping any pretence of suburban commuting services and concentrating on traditional metro cattle truck people moving. It can only be a matter of time before the Chiltern contract is renegotiated to include all stations beyond Moor Park and the Met services will end at Watford. Be prepared for higher fares on the Chiltern, though. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 16:24:08 GMT
I'm sad to say I have pretty much abandoned the MET line now. I always used to use the MET for my journeys into the capital, I would also use it with friends and family as I always thought it was an interesting journey into London from Amersham.
Now though I stay in High Wycombe and happily pay the fare for return journeys to and from the capital. 29 Minutes on a fast, clean train direct to Marylebone as apposed to an hour and a bit from Amersham - There is simply no contest anymore - especially since Project Evergreen 2 has been finished by Chiltern. If they wished they could run services to Marylebone from Wycombe at around the 25 minute mark!
The group offers Chiltern offer such as 3 and 4 for 2 on day travelcards also means people can obtain return travel and day travelcards to/from London for as little as £10.
I feel so sorry for the daily commuters from the sticks that have to use the MET for their journey to work - A great line with I have to say great station staff in particular at Amersham but unfortunately a journey time of over an hour to travel to Baker St is laughable. I will still maintain what I said when I first heard about this timetable which is that in this day and age people expect journey times to be reduced - whether that be in the air with new planes or on the rails with new trains and upgrades - to make a journey longer and trying to call it progress is, in my honest opinion plain stupid!
P.S MetControl - I have seen many responses from yourself on the timetable, and I take all your views onboard - please dont think this is an attack on yourself or the hardworking people that make this line what it is - it isnt. It is aginst the decision makers above!!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 17:20:10 GMT
30 minutes or thereabouts is the current accepted journey time from the popular London commuter towns. I'm a bit confused here. What is the current Met journey time from Amersham/Chesham on the fast lines and historically has it ever been within the 30 minutes acceptibility you quote? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2012 17:47:26 GMT
I think when you looked at the time/cost of the MET on the old time table people thought it was acceptable.
I think that has changed somewhat with the new TT. Expecting people to endure a journey of over an hour has left a bitter taste in peoples mouths...
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:-[Just to correct myself earlier, there will not be a new WTT in May as there is something called the Olympics. WTT332 will be December, and will still see all-stations services.
