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Post by ianvisits on Feb 3, 2012 18:18:10 GMT
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Post by tubeprune on Feb 3, 2012 18:52:23 GMT
Modern traction kit is very sensitive to repeated fluctuations in current and voltage levels. If you get ice on the conductor rails, it can create all sorts of these fluctuations - you can see it in the arcing, for example. The traction system shuts down when it senses insufficient current to keep the train going so, to prevent trains getting stalled on icy rails, the driver can switch to "ice mode", which de-sensitises the traction control monitoring system and allows the train to keep moving under the bad conditions.
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Post by metrider on Feb 3, 2012 19:23:16 GMT
I'm assuming that there is some kind of trade-off with using that setting? Otherwise there would be no point in having the setting and the system would always be de-sensitised.
Any idea what that trade-off is?
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Post by 100andthirty on Feb 3, 2012 19:40:09 GMT
The other important feature of ice mode is that it causes 200amps to be drawn though the conductor shoes on the leading car. this current, if not needed by the motors, is fed through the rheostatic brake resistor. This helps heat the conductor shoe and burn though modest ice layers. It has been a fantastic success on Southern class 375 Electrostars.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 20:28:20 GMT
It'd be interesting to see how they cope compared to last years, quite good performance from the A stock!
Heres how the A stock coped
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 20:34:09 GMT
It'd be interesting to see how they cope compared to last years, quite good performance from the A stock! Heres how the A stock coped I'm sure those A-stocks have been through much worse snow than that!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2012 20:36:28 GMT
It'd be interesting to see how they cope compared to last years, quite good performance from the A stock! Heres how the A stock coped I'm sure those A-stocks have been through much worse snow than that! Agreed!
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Post by redsetter on Feb 3, 2012 20:43:24 GMT
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Post by metrider on Feb 3, 2012 21:20:31 GMT
The other important feature of ice mode is that it causes 200amps to be drawn though the conductor shoes on the leading car. this current, if not needed by the motors, is fed through the rheostatic brake resistor. This helps heat the conductor shoe and burn though modest ice layers. It has been a fantastic success on Southern class 375 Electrostars. Ahh right - 200A! - That is quite a trade off... Still - taking note of the S stock comments in the "Heating" thread - Sitting in the lead car above the Rheosatic Brake resistor would appear to be the order of the day to keep warm ;D ;D ;D
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Post by tecchy on Feb 3, 2012 23:22:27 GMT
Every car has a brake resistor so you'll be good on that front!
The most simplest way to put it as Tubeprune says: If you look at a waveform of a normal voltage intake, then look at one which has been done with ice on the rails, the waveform will have lots of 'spikes' and be all over the shop. S Stock is very sensitive and requires a substantially better electrical connection than the A Stock (Hence the new shoegear)
Dare I mention S Stocks and testing in the snow, or shall we cross that bridge when we come to it.....!?!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 20:52:21 GMT
Service update at 20:49
Suspended between Chesham and Chalfont and Latimer due to adverse weather conditions.
What happened to "Ice Mode" ?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 21:49:23 GMT
Could be signalling or traction current mtmikethom
Right, I am going to say somthing positive about the S stock here. Very well done to whoever made ice mode (if it was even on tonight), the S stocks from what I could see from my lovely warm A stock ran smoothly!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2012 23:16:00 GMT
They must of spent most of last week running around, re loading the software on the trains. It was removed from on all the neasden based trains, as it had not been tested!!
what a waste last year was!!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 4:51:50 GMT
From my experience last night - S Stock + Snow = Massive Fail:
1) Chesham service suspended - what's the chances due to an S Stock stalled at Chesham unable to make it back up the hill?
2) My train home to Chesham diverted to Amersham (but the driver didn't bother to tell anyone no Chesham service and taxis instead), S Stock, struggled to leave Ricky, stopped, made lots of unhealthy noises before seeming to find its feet - was this the 'ice mode' being switched in?
3) Having got off at Chalfont due to the lack of proper information from the driver (official complaint coming up), wait for next Amersham, also S Stock, which exhibits the same problems as the first only it never finds its feet all the way to Amersham.
At Amersham (whilst waiting for the taxi) it appeared that the first train I'd left at Chafont had gone into the siding and then stalled attempting to leave it to head south. I watched the one I had finally arrived on attempt to leave southbound from platform 1 - this was at about half a mile an hour and appeared to be under gravity.
Conclusion: Either the drivers have no idea how to handle these trains in 'ice mode', Or, they are an over complicated software driven disaster totally unsuited to adverse weather, especially snow and ice.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 8:12:03 GMT
Dare I mention S Stocks and testing in the snow, or shall we cross that bridge when we come to it.....!?! See other thread... ;D
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Post by citysig on Feb 5, 2012 20:22:42 GMT
From my experience last night - S Stock + Snow = Massive Fail: 1) Chesham service suspended - what's the chances due to an S Stock stalled at Chesham unable to make it back up the hill? 2) My train home to Chesham diverted to Amersham (but the driver didn't bother to tell anyone no Chesham service and taxis instead), S Stock, struggled to leave Ricky, stopped, made lots of unhealthy noises before seeming to find its feet - was this the 'ice mode' being switched in? 3) Having got off at Chalfont due to the lack of proper information from the driver (official complaint coming up), wait for next Amersham, also S Stock, which exhibits the same problems as the first only it never finds its feet all the way to Amersham. Conclusion: Either the drivers have no idea how to handle these trains in 'ice mode', Or, they are an over complicated software driven disaster totally unsuited to adverse weather, especially snow and ice. 1. No. Simply not enough S-stocks available to keep that service running without causing more delays to other branches. 2. Sorry the driver didn't make this known. And yes it probably was a brief delay whilst the mode was changed. 3. But it got you to Amersham? How were the local roads at that time - which is why the taxis were a bit hit and miss and nobody actually knew at the time where they would turn up. But you complain away. The drivers do know how to operate the trains, and both the trains and the drivers performed better than forecast in the very heavy snowfall last night. In my area of the country, not too far from London, local buses and taxis were suspended just after 2100hrs. Many did not restart today until after lunch.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 21:25:57 GMT
I think the other trade off is a jerky ride over gaps in the conductor rail.
All train drivers are far more competent than drivers of road vehicles.
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Post by v52gc on Feb 5, 2012 22:37:00 GMT
All train drivers are far more competent than drivers of road vehicles. Depends on what is being driven ;D
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2012 23:33:41 GMT
Well your average train driver is trained to a far higher standard than a bus or lorry driver for example.
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