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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2012 14:39:05 GMT
From my understanding, D stocks switch to Weak Field on the EB at Bow Road. If a driver forgets to do this, and climbs the uphill gradient out to Bromley-by-Bow, will the train be quicker up the slope?
I've also wondered why WB trains wait until Bow Road to lower the Weak flag. They don't really go over 20mph from Bromey -> Bow!
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 3, 2012 17:23:31 GMT
From my understanding, D stocks switch to Weak Field on the EB at Bow Road. If a driver forgets to do this, and climbs the uphill gradient out to Bromley-by-Bow, will the train be quicker up the slope? I've also wondered why WB trains wait until Bow Road to lower the Weak flag. They don't really go over 20mph from Bromey -> Bow! D Stock have quicker acceleration with the Weak Field flag raised. The traction current section gap is mid-way between Bromley and Bow Road.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 11:52:05 GMT
Off topic but I really want to know, how fast can a D stock go on the level on those long sections east of Barking? Can they exceed 45 mph?
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Post by Dstock7080 on Jan 5, 2012 12:20:28 GMT
Off topic but I really want to know, how fast can a D stock go on the level on those long sections east of Barking? Can they exceed 45 mph? mmm, you decide! : tinyurl.com/78w9gjt(Elm Pk-DagE)
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 12:54:20 GMT
Very nice
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Post by eurostarengineer on Jan 5, 2012 14:54:51 GMT
50mph? PAH! I've seen 56 for the pedantic out there - it was a video
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Post by jardine01 on Jan 5, 2012 20:05:22 GMT
I went on the District line the other day and it did not feel that fast the C stocks seem to have more power lets hope the S7 stock wont be preformance limited lower than the C stock?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jan 5, 2012 21:11:25 GMT
Don't forget the maximum line speed is 45mph - 35mph in tunnels.
We do tend to move along quite slowly on the District, but I blame the timetable. The powers that be did finally take out some of the "padding" that was introduced when the Circle got the Hammersmith extension, but I still feel 'they' could go further......
I suspect it'll only happen with ATO though.
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Post by causton on Jan 5, 2012 21:55:05 GMT
I went on the District line the other day and it did not feel that fast the C stocks seem to have more power lets hope the S7 stock wont be preformance limited lower than the C stock? Don't know what D stock you got on the District line... the C stocks have no power IMO and are falling apart as well!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2012 23:45:49 GMT
D Stock have quicker acceleration with the Weak Field flag raised. Dstock7080, I hate to query your statement as you clearly know your stuff, but can you clarify my understanding of the Weak Field Flag? A while back there was a thread on this subject regarding the A stock where it emerged that the WFF allowed for higher top speed by reducing the field current (thereby reducing the back emf). However this reduced magnetic strength from the field coils inevitably gave reduced acceleration as a trade off. You say the D Stock WFF increases the acceleration, does this mean it is a completely different function to the A Stock?
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Post by t697 on Jan 6, 2012 7:27:36 GMT
D Stock have quicker acceleration with the Weak Field flag raised. Dstock7080, I hate to query your statement as you clearly know your stuff, but can you clarify my understanding of the Weak Field Flag? A while back there was a thread on this subject regarding the A stock where it emerged that the WFF allowed for higher top speed by reducing the field current (thereby reducing the back emf). However this reduced magnetic strength from the field coils inevitably gave reduced acceleration as a trade off. You say the D Stock WFF increases the acceleration, does this mean it is a completely different function to the A Stock? The field weakening comes in after the equipment has notched up fully in full field, thus acceleration does not diminish as quickly as if it had been in full field. On D78, the notching current up to full parallel is not affected by the flag switch. So the train will get to full parallel - about 18 mph - the same flag up or down. As Dstock 7080 states, the train will be quicker up the climb from Bow Road flag up, because it continues to accelerate above 18mph and take advantage of the weak field setting. The difference on A stock is that with the flag up, the notching up to full parallel is at a lower notching relay setting. A stock is the only LU stock configured that way. It was done to help minimise peak current demand in the outer London sections and hence minimise the number of sub-stations needed in the 1958-1960 upgrade project. I think the reason for Flag Switch changeover being at Bow Road both ways is mostly human factors related. The driver only needs to learn a few changeover places. The signalling is designed accordingly (overlaps). Even though there is a speed limit on the descent to Bow Road, there is a small run time benefit before slowing for the speed limit area, coming from Bromley-by-Bow.
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Post by jardine01 on Jan 6, 2012 17:54:24 GMT
The S7 stock should be around the same as the C stocks preformance. Maybe its Just the S8 stocks which are limited due to the A stocks? However with the S7 stock it will probally need to have to match the D stock's preformance? With ATO it shoul be upgraded it will be nice to see a S stock uncapped! Because I am sure I could walk faster then they first move!
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Post by t697 on Jan 6, 2012 19:12:08 GMT
The S7 stock should be around the same as the C stocks preformance. Maybe its Just the S8 stocks which are limited due to the A stocks? However with the S7 stock it will probally need to have to match the D stock's preformance? With ATO it shoul be upgraded it will be nice to see a S stock uncapped! Because I am sure I could walk faster then they first move! Yes, S7 performance is matched to C stock flag down (which is virtually the same as D stock flag down) and D stock flag up, capped to just over 40mph and 45mph respectively to suit the present line limits. Initial acceleration from stand just as C and D stock, not the A stock equivalent. Controlled automatic changeover at the usual places, Bow Road, Turnham Green and Putney Bridge. Plenty more performance when ATC is implemented later.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 20:37:46 GMT
Very interesting. What did you mean about changeovers, only modern trains don't have 'weak field' any more?
So the S7s will have better acceleration than the S8s but capped to the lower speed ?
It's all alien to me - for example on the Euston to Watford DC line, the maximum line speed is 50 mph and thats a very short section on the main line on Camden Bank. The rest is 45 mph maximum and despite sharing the line with 1972 stock and using tripcocks, the 378s to my knowledge aren't capped in either acceleration or top speed to match the tube stock.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 20:47:21 GMT
@notatraindriver, Im guessing that the 378's arnt capped because the maximum line speed iirc on the North London line is 60mph. But also mainline stock doesnt seem to have the same sort of regulations tube stock has to do with overlaps etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 6, 2012 20:53:12 GMT
60 indeed Bronzeonion but only between North Pole and Olympia. The actual north London line between Richmond and Stratford is 45 with many sections below that
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Post by t697 on Jan 6, 2012 22:11:56 GMT
Very interesting. What did you mean about changeovers, only modern trains don't have 'weak field' any more? So the S7s will have better acceleration than the S8s but capped to the lower speed ? On the LU lines with Flag Switch areas, Flag Up is generally for the 'out of town' areas. On the District the changeover stations are the ones I mentioned. The S stock has performance curves programmed to make the modern equipment follow the performance of the old trains, until we get the new signalling. The performance curve in use is automatically selected by the CSDE beacon at each station. Yes, for the time being, S7 will have better initial acceleration but lower top speed compared to S8 - just like the trains being replaced.
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