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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 17:05:05 GMT
 I am getting a bit nervous lately about all these questions being posted on this forum about the where, when and how of the modern tube system. For instance someone wants to know about empty stock movements. Another wants to know where the depots are and track layouts. A third p[arty wants to know something else. Now I know I have posted questions myself and that mine like the other queryists motives are straight up and above board but there are others on the web who will find that information useful. I worry a lot that someone (including myself) could ask/post something that could be useful to bad guys. So please let's all remember in this present climate the security issues of any question we are posting. I may be a worrisome old sod but you can never be too careful.
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Post by banana on Aug 17, 2005 17:25:56 GMT
Isn't this a duplicate thread!
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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 17:28:31 GMT
Isn't this a duplicate thread!
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Dunno. But it is a worried middle aged geezer frightened for his friends on this forum.
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Post by banana on Aug 17, 2005 17:41:39 GMT
CLOSE THE FORUM! and if it's me you're referring to when you say "For instance someone wants to know about empty stock movements" I suggest you find something else to worry about.  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 17:59:02 GMT
and if it's me you're referring to when you say "For instance someone wants to know about empty stock movements" I suggest you find something else to worry about. :
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You see. Just the very reaction to expect from a a bad guy wanting info (I DON'T say you are)
The bad guys sees reference to empty trains and thinks "Oh just dandy to catch that while it's empty then no-one gets suspicious if I am already on it" THAT is the way their mind s seem to work.
If you want specific info them PM a LUL forum member direct for it and he will probably provide it.
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Post by banana on Aug 17, 2005 18:11:15 GMT
"THAT is the way their mind s seem to work." why do you think you know how their minds work? Why would anybody want to "catch" an empty train from Northfields depot to Northfields? If they did have reason do you seriously suggest that knowing the time of the train will help? If yes, then your (ex-)bosses at Transport for London don't seem to think so. "If you want specific info them PM a LUL forum member direct for it and he will probably provide it." So terrorists can PM their requests - fantastic idea  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 19:03:07 GMT
It's not the mans attitude at fault.
We KNOW why he wants the info. He wants to be able to get a seat to ride to work which is fair enough. But what he is asking is probably classsed a "Commercially Confidential" by the firms that run the tube now and anyone giving said information is liable to prosecuttion and/or dismissal if employed by them if they divulge it on a PUBLIC FORUM.
As I said it is better to PM someone if it is vital to have to know. Mr Banana or anyone else is very unlikely to get the items they require as it is specifically forbidden in writing and verbally to give it.
Terrorists, as he says, can probably get what they want by nosing but lets not make it TOO easy for them
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 18, 2005 4:02:26 GMT
As a driver, who is at most risk of being on the receiving end of a suicide bomb - I would like to ensure the safety of myself (and my colleagues). I would like to think that 99% of user's of this forum respect that wish and accept the judgment of staff who post here, and that of the moderators.
You must also understand that some information, such as working timetables are not for public knowledge. This is not the personal view of anyone who post's here - it is the policy of London Underground, and as employees, we are subject to disciplinary action - which can go as far as getting the sack. Now I'm sorry, but I ain't getting the sack for anyone!!!
Dave, I know you want this forum to be as open as possible, but I hope you agree, the 7th July has unfortunately challenged this openness.
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Post by banana on Aug 18, 2005 5:43:04 GMT
As a driver, who is at most risk of being on the receiving end of a suicide bomb Although I understand your point I would challenge your assertion |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2005 6:38:13 GMT
OK, now for my two-pennies worth!  I think we need to be careful to distinguish between people who are genuinely interested and those who are out to cause trouble. Being careful and weighing up what is being asked before answering is a sensible way to make sure that we don't cross the line. Having said that, all of us need to be prepared to say 'I'm sorry, I can't answer that' and that we all respect that persons decision. PMing is a good way of sharing information about things in a private manner too! We do need to be careful though not to give too much ground. It's very easy to resort to 'say nothing' for what is a perfectly innocent question. Having been on the forum for a while, it is obvious that all the members are self-moderating, in that they dont post things which are risky or going to get people into trouble. If we stop posting and generally chatting about things, the terrorists win - they've taken our freedom of speech - they've got us scared that they'll use this information for their purposes. Terrorism, in my opinion (and I'm open to discussion on this), works on fear - fear they will attack and, not nescessarily, the attacks themselves. I appreciate that the 7th and 21st July events changed the tube and this forum forever, but we mustn't let 'them' win by destroying what we have and who we are. (The floodgates are now open for comments / thoughts / suggestions, either here or via PM!) |
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Post by q8 on Aug 18, 2005 7:49:03 GMT
I hope Mr Banana can make it to the meet on Saturday then we can all discuss this thing face to face.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 18, 2005 8:19:08 GMT
As a driver, who is at most risk of being on the receiving end of a suicide bomb Although I understand your point I would challenge your assertion Whatever mate. You have your opinion, I have mine. Yes Q8, Saturday will be interesting at this rate! |
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Post by banana on Aug 18, 2005 8:23:20 GMT
Alas I won't be there.
However, I realise this is an emotional subject but I would suggest that in the case of another similar style episode to the 7th July it will be the passengers that are "at most risk" and not the driver.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 18, 2005 8:41:43 GMT
I don't wish to have any beef with you banana, but I would like to remind you that the Piccadilly line train's bomb went off in the first car, almost right behind the driver. At Edgware Road, a train was passing as the device went off. I also travel as a passenger to & from work and between depots. Therefore I consider myself very much at risk, however small that risk may be.
I can relate to comments that we can't let the terrorists win, and I wholeheartedly agree with that. But I also agree with Q8, in that we shouldn't make sensitive information too easy to obtain.
And if the company says it's private information - it's private information, simple as that.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 18, 2005 8:55:38 GMT
These points of view are both correct, depending on which particular risk you are talking about.
Assuming any future attacks are of the same type as those on the 7th, then:
The driver has the highest chance of being on a train that is attacked. They are on trains for several hours a day, driving, training, fault-finding, etc.
The passengers have the highest chance of being killed or injured if the train they are on is attacked. Even if the bomb was placed right up in the front of the front carriage of the train, there is a partition between it and the driver. Regardless of how much or how little protection this offers, it is more than the passengers standing/sitting next to the bomb have. If the bomb is in the last carriage, it would need to be a mighty big one, or to cause some secondary incident, to physically affect the driver.
If the attacks take a different form, then the risks might be different, but here is not the place to speculate on what the nature of these might be.
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Phil
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Post by Phil on Aug 18, 2005 11:01:06 GMT
Every one of us has a different opinion about what is 'sensitive'. If you remember I posted a thread about a letter to Rail and how insensitive it was. Nevertheless, despite it being published on 17th july, the july 21st bombers did not take the 'advice' of the writer and plant bombs all in the same place. Presumably they simply do not read these forums. What is far more scary is that one of these fanatics could well have been an LU driver for many years now (or a station assistant, etc. etc.) and still is, just waiting........
If they are determined they will already have infiltrated the system long before security became such a big issue and even now will be 'invisible'.
So, Q8 you are right to be worried about your ex-colleagues but there are so many things we cannot control that in the wide scope of things this is but one part.
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Post by ikar on Aug 18, 2005 11:56:27 GMT
I dont think that terorists woud plant a bomb on a train that WTT sais it will be for instance Aldgate because their is a high chanse that won't leave the stabling point
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Post by q8 on Aug 18, 2005 12:26:52 GMT
All sides have had a chance to air their views here on this subject. So before it gets too heated and out of order and in the interests of safety I'm gonna lock it.
If I am doing wrong then DD will bollock me and unlock it again
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I am getting a bit nervous lately about all these questions being posted on this forum about the where, when and how of the modern tube system.
