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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 21:40:00 GMT
Good Evening Ladies & Gentlemen, As an infrquent poster on here its always a pleasure to read through the posts I have missed in the intervening time - infact I have spent several hours on & off today reading some fascinating topics and rather making me feel a little homesick for the Capital now I've moved to Devon. As some of you may or may not remember I started a Radley Models Acton Shuttle kit some time ago - and have been working on it on & off for some time now to pass the time whilst I am between jobs. Currently the state of play is like this:  Was taken this morning, bodywork has had two coats of Red primer, underframe has had two coats of black paint and the roof has had three coats of paint - next step is a further coat on the underframe - this photo has highlighted a few areas I either missed or the paint reluctantly adhered and the body will need a topcoat - which will be either Ford or Vauxhall (Can't remember which) Carmine Red. I wanted to ask a few questions if I may? I've noticed the 'Spud' motor seems to slip and occasionally struggles shifting the car around my poorly laid track - some temporary weight over the motor bogie has eased this and improved performance and track keeping significantly can anyone recommend a suggested amount of weight I should put in? I am going to covert the unit to DCC and install lighting, currently directionally correct head & tail lights, as well as directionally correct cab light. And saloon lighting - I've found a decoder and know how to rig the wiring up - the issue I have is I want to add pickups on the trailing bogie to keep power over the points which are insulfrog has anyone else done this? if so would it be a slight impertinence to ask if I could have a photo of the pick-ups? As I am slightly stumped on how to actually do it. I was thinking of two phospor-bronze or brass strips on the underside of the under-frame to transmit the power the length of the coach - as I can paint that black to disguise it but its the actual pick-ups themselves I am baffled on. Any do you guys seal your models with a clear varnish or similar once its fully painted and working correctly. I thank anyone who can help in advance,  ~ Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 22:18:40 GMT
Hi Gary,
I have already made a comment against this photo on RMweb. I used Johnson's Klear floor shine on my which unfortunately is no longer available!
If you are using Tenshodo and DCC the unit it will not be that easy to program but it will work however it will not work at all in consist or with the another power car with the same address.
If you are using it just as an Acton Shuttle it will be OK -If you want the best CV settings just PM me.
You will need to add some weight above the motor bogie but do not overdo it of the gears on the Tenshodo might split. Start with a little weight and test until you are happy with it; you should should not exceed 2 oz's
Good luck
Nigel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 22:36:10 GMT
Hello Nigel, Thanks for the reply & comment on RMWeb; I actually cheated on the whitemetal trailer bogie basically I tried superglue and it fell apart the next morning when tested - I then tried soldering the bogie (after cleaning) and couldn't get it to stay together or square. So after some choice four letter works (I may have made a passing reference to the dubious ancestry of the IRL G Stock) it bit me back and burned my fingers when my grip on the soldering Iron slipped at a critical moment. It was put back in the box after this incident. I was reading the Metropolitan Rolling Stock book, and there was a reference to the Dreadnoughts gaining ex District K2 bogies in place of their original Fox Bogies. And Radley Models do resin Dreadnought Bogies a quick check resulted in them matching. The give away is there is no shoebeams (I'll glue the whitemetal one one) and there is no fuse box on the plate frame. The nearest bogie on that photo is the replacement resin one. Yes I was planning to use the Shuttle on its own - I am getting the urge to do away with my sleepy BR(S)/SR Branchline project and have a LT/BR Terminus... Incidentally I found that Blackboard Paint gives a nice semi-matt black finish but it certainly needs sealing otherwise it scratches off. Cheers, ~ Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 19, 2011 23:11:12 GMT
Hi Gary,
Thanks for the details of the bogies I think I with used superglue and epoxy when I assemble mine.
Re colours Games Workshop Chaos Black is very good as it covers well and does to come of easily. I suggest you prime with either Halfords Auto Primer of a foundation paint from Games Workshop.
Games Workshop paint is acrylic but it dries and looks like you have sprayed it. For the inside colour of the Q Stock use Games Workshop's Dark Angels Green it does create an Underground look inside the coach
Nigel.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 10:46:18 GMT
Hi Gary, I hope you had fun with that resin K2?  When I get to the painting stage I apply the base colour, put the transfers on and then seal it with Humbrol satin varnish. As for the performance of the Tenshodo, Nigel has it spot on. They can suffer from split gears on the axles as they are not very substantial. Replacements are easy enough to find but that is not the point. If you have built the trailing bogie as per instructions the Tenshodo will struggle anyway. I cut my K2s up and rebuild them with outside brass pin-point bearings. On my Q stock set the Q23 is non-powered. The six-car set is powered by a pair of Tenshodos wired together in the Q38 trailer. This is adequete with all pin-points on the trailing bogies. One tip for when you come to glaze it. Before you add the glazing may I recommend painting the cab window recesses black. This helps reduce the look of depth that the casting has. I haven't tried it on my Q23 yet as I haven't got around to glazing the cabs yet. ( it's only taken two years!) It works for other models though. For internal colours I used Humbrol cream (can't remember the no) for above waist level and Revell No 365 for below. I also intend to add posters to the inner ends of the cab bulkheads as they will be very visible, even from a normal viewing angle. Good luck and good work so far. Will it be finished in time for the Christmas meet? |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 11:49:25 GMT
Thank you both Glyn & Nigel, Currently I am debating if I should go to an exhibition on Saturday... or order the decoder and parts I need to Illuminate the model correctly. If no-one minds too greatly I'll add a couple of other photos of the 'during' construction phase.  This is the wiring diagram - I have also saved the "How to DCC a Spud" guide from Metromodels, I plan on using a TCS three function decoder which should fit nicely between a facing pair of seats. Its only 9mm by 3mm (ish). Your Q38, is it wired for DCC or simply the motors working together? I was wondering if its possible to wire the two pick ups together to a decoder. I am conservatively estimating one spud should roughly power two cars not sure how good of an assumption that is.    These three show the fitting of the resin bogie. I've used the white metal connections to the under frame to try and keep some weight at this end as otherwise it'll fly off the track if being run fast - experience has shown some more weight is still required. Also the last photo shows the motor bogie lifting off the track some alterations have now been made and this is has been remedied. Was very pleasing to see the model on its bogies properly for the first time. Although I was apprehensive about taking a spray can to the bodywork for the undercoat now however I am more worried about masking the roof to paint the body in its topcoat. ;D Yes Glyn I had lots of "fun" with my K2 bogie, the resin one I have drilled it out slightly and fitted the brass top hats for the axles so it turns quite freely now. Thank you both for the colours for inside I shall be looking into that once I've sorted the lighting out and it shows up my horrid sprayed interior where I didn't bother masking it. ;D Oh is someone bringing a layout to the Christmas meet? Sounds like a challenge to get the lighting and exterior complete in two months... it might happen. Cheers, ~ Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 14:55:56 GMT
No-ones bringing a layout but one or two of us bring some bits along to show off. Just don't put them on the table at the same time as the chocolate desert turns up or Metman may eat them too! ;D ;D ;D
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2011 18:22:49 GMT
Regarding the phospher bronze pick-ups, I have done the same thing using strips of the stuff soldered to a bit of Vero board, super-glued to the underside of the trailing bogie. This works well, as I have used this method on a Harrow Battery Loco and Met Sarah Siddons (I can include a picture if you still wish). Regarding the Tenshodos and DCC, I have had good luck with Lenz Gold decoders, but recently retrofitted the said Battery Loco with a Black Beetle spud. In my experience, Tenshodos are okay if you have more than one in a EMU congif. Their slow speed and pulling power performance is not that good. I have found Black Beetles to be a little more powerful, quieter and have good slow speed performance. Nice job on the Q Stock!!
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 20, 2011 22:59:38 GMT
Sorry about the K2 bogie, not a great idea, I think we will be replacing that with a metal version with bearings!!
Make sure the motor bogie is at the end were the main headlights with shutters are. The first photo with the paint on appears to be the wrong way round.
Good luck.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 7:49:18 GMT
Metal K2's? How soon?
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metman
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Post by metman on Oct 21, 2011 9:08:01 GMT
As soon as I get permission to re do the Q stock!
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 10:15:31 GMT
Some Good News, I have negotiated with The Household Authorities, and been granted the use of the spare room in my house. We have two spare bedrooms you see so I have the use of the smaller one which until yesterday was being used as a store room for the junk awaiting homes or the loft. With this in mind my three board have gone up yesterday evening giving me a space of 12' x 2' for a layout and fiddle-yard. There was some restrictions, I have to make the layout able to be stored if we have guests - no problem, go and have my hair cut, take all the junk up into the loft etc. I won't go on. ;D Metman I've had a look at Ginny and the Motor bogie wont fit at the original end with the more lights - the floor pan doesn't have a fitting for it at that end and I can't swap it around as it is 'handed' and wont fit if i simply turn it around. I thought District Stock had the motor at the inner trailing end usually so never thought anything of it. Oh possible Q Stock rework - might have to sign up for that. Hello Cyberman - thanks for that bit of info; would it be possible for a photo to look at as well I am trying to gather the bits together on a limited budget but is I get the pick-ups sorted first then that way i'll have a reliable running unit prior to chipping it if that makes sense. I would be most grateful. Thanks all! ~ Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2011 14:21:21 GMT
"Hello Cyberman - thanks for that bit of info; would it be possible for a photo to look at as well I am trying to gather the bits together on a limited budget but is I get the pick-ups sorted first then that way i'll have a reliable running unit prior to chipping it if that makes sense. I would be most grateful. " Dear TGR, here's the link to a close-up pic of the Bat Loco trailing bogie pick-ups. s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb404/cyberman12/Model%20Railways/stuff/?action=view¤t=Bogie-pickups.jpg I have to say my soldering is not quite what it used to be... The plastic piece is to insulate the head of the central fixing screw from the Vero-Board. Space is somewhat limited on tube size bogies. The surface stock will be a lot more accommodating space-wise. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2011 10:33:24 GMT
Perfect I can see exactly what you've done with the pick-ups; I wasn't quite sure on how to go about it but as they say a picture is worth 1,000 words. Thanks Cyberman. I am currently trying to sort out some track plan for my terminus station I am currently doing more research on Watford MET as Nigel has suggested.
Cheers,
~ Gary
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 13:52:48 GMT
Wow; what a difference Topcoat makes to a model. I've brought Ginny up from the Paintshop (Shed at the bottom of the garden) and placed it on the chassis for some photos - the paint is pretty much dry except for one spot where you can make out the imprint of my finger - but that part will be over painted in black anyway. I was dreading masking the roof off because of its odd shape - but I've decided that in the future I shall spray the body first after the undercoat and then mask the body around the cantrail before spraying the roof. Some areas need a touch up with some paint - I am going to apply this with a brush; areas like the underside of the panelling where the law of gravity states things go down - not up.    It might be a little thick in places but I am happy with it for the moment - I expect that I will need to 'touch' up and to remove bits of paint in the future anyway but for the moment I am happy - next task is for the additional pick-ups and to chip it. Cheers, ~ Gary |
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castlebar
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Post by castlebar on Oct 25, 2011 15:08:15 GMT
Looks SO realistically like the South Acton shuttle (No PAX inside adds more reality) Trip number was 100 white on black. Fabulous model.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2011 17:48:47 GMT
Thanks for the kind words Castlebar; Its my first toe dipping into a proper 'kit' and has been a learning curve - I still have much work to do some touching up of paintwork a few mods to improve running.
Although I think the next model I attempt will be a 'smooth' sided surface stock to ease painting.
Cheers,
~ Gary
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 8:58:05 GMT
That topcoat really works. When I had mine done (I don't get time to paint my own stuff) putting the satin varnish on it to seal the transfers (which I did do) was the 'wow' moment! I see that you have left the moulded air pipes on the ends. These should be in the inboard position one end and nearer the edge of the front on the other. On 4167 the pipes were on the outer edge on the 'original' cab whereas on 4176 they were the other way around. As it is it gives you the benefit of being able to do either car as one end won't be quite right. I'm sure that it'll be fine as only us pedants would notice such a thing! ;D Good news re. space for the layout. I'm hoping that the solution to my current personal problems will allow me to keep the house and still have my 18' X 12' loft space! By the way, 4176 ran with '100' on the front while 4167 ran with '99'. It appears that these numbers may have only been carried on the 'original' cab end as no brackets were provided on the 'new' cab. On 4176 the number appears to have been riveted on! Keep up the good work. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 13:54:34 GMT
Excellent work! Can't wait to see the interior lit and with head tail lights on. I meant to say in an earlier post regarding the number of motor bogies needed. It is goo rule of thumb to use one spud for every two carriages. In my experience, this seems to work well and if you can run wiring from one bogie to the other for power pickup, even better.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2011 21:58:50 GMT
Thank you guys. Yes the Acton Shuttle is an on-going project; currently attention has switched to the layout - as I can't complete the DCC fitting etc until I have somewhere to test it. (Or generally, play trains) Currently I have the complete trackplan for Watford Met from 1960/61 from old maps.com and it shows the goods yard on a 1:2500 scale map. I've spent this evening fettling pointwork for the scissors crossover - but thats another story. Over the next week or two I am going to order and fit the additional pick-ups and ensure the unit runs perfectly on DC power before I get the chip for DCC. It might look reasonable for the end of the year hopefully. Cheers, ~ Gary |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2011 21:28:31 GMT
When fitting pick-ups to the trailing bogie don't forget to remove the anodised coating on the wheel treads and rear. I once pretty much destroyed a motor in a kit I had built in an effort to find why it wouldn't run properly only to find out that I hadn't done this! SFB moment!  |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 13:05:55 GMT
Is that what is making my wheels look like they are rusting this anodised coating?
I haven't started on the trailing pickups yet I am still faffing with the track work for Watford Met; I am trying to decide if it should be an impressionistic view of the station - as there is no way I can fit the goods yard in even at the 1/2 to 1/3rd compression I am using.
Cheers,
~ Gary
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Post by Deleted on Nov 1, 2011 14:27:46 GMT
Is that what is making my wheels look like they are rusting this anodised coating? Cheers, ~ Gary I use acrylic rail paint grime available from JB Model World www.jb2mmworld.co.uk/Below is a picture or the underframe of one of my Class 501's with this paint applied  Nigel |
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When I get to the painting stage I apply the base colour, put the transfers on and then seal it with Humbrol satin varnish. As for the performance of the Tenshodo, Nigel has it spot on. They can suffer from split gears on the axles as they are not very substantial. Replacements are easy enough to find but that is not the point. If you have built the trailing bogie as per instructions the Tenshodo will struggle anyway. I cut my K2s up and rebuild them with outside brass pin-point bearings. On my Q stock set the Q23 is non-powered. The six-car set is powered by a pair of Tenshodos wired together in the Q38 trailer. This is adequete with all pin-points on the trailing bogies.
