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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 7:45:30 GMT
Dear Harrow signalman,
Stop holding fast trains at North Harrow and giving slow trains priority.
Many thanks,
Every fast metropolitan line passenger.
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Post by alfie on Sept 10, 2011 8:51:00 GMT
That includes me!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 9:12:24 GMT
Dear Harrow signalman, Stop holding fast trains at North Harrow and giving slow trains priority. Many thanks, Every fast metropolitan line passenger. Now there's a good thing about the Dec 11 timetable, less complaints like this !!!  |
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Post by citysig on Sept 10, 2011 9:54:12 GMT
Dear Harrow signalman, Stop holding fast trains at North Harrow and giving slow trains priority. Many thanks, Every fast metropolitan line passenger. Dear Bengley, Your detail in your original communication is vague to say the least, but based on previous experience of your musings, I will assume you mean being held on the southbound fast line at Harrow North Junction. On London Underground as a whole, we do operate Working Timetables, and on lines such as the Metropolitan Line, we even publish detailed timings for each service. As with most other rail operators, apart from at termini, the timings you see are departure times from each station. Sometimes a service may indeed arrive early, and will be required to await its booked departure time. This early running can be the result of the service running so perfect that the in-built recovery time is not needed. Punctual departure times are essential to maintain an even flow of trains in both directions. Whilst, to the casual outsider, it may appear we persistantly strive to annoy people, those with the ability to see the much bigger picture will see it is not done on purpose. To address your individual case, it is likely that your southbound service was running early, and that on this occasion it was not possible to bring the train into Harrow station without affecting other services which were also running to time. Without further detail, I cannot expand much more than this. As you are well aware from the past, if you give me as much detail as you can, I will endeavour to give you truthful reasons for your delay. Hopefully this at least answers the first part of your query. For, and on behalf of, the Harrow Signallers. Metcontrol xx |
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Post by t697 on Sept 10, 2011 20:26:59 GMT
As a commuter from North Harrow it often seems the converse of Bengley's complaint happens. I guess we all notice when we are delayed but don't tend to recall when that other train was held for ours to proceed!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2011 23:22:15 GMT
Dear Harrow signalman, Stop holding fast trains at North Harrow and giving slow trains priority. Many thanks, Every fast metropolitan line passenger. Dear Bengley, Your detail in your original communication is vague to say the least, but based on previous experience of your musings, I will assume you mean being held on the southbound fast line at Harrow North Junction. On London Underground as a whole, we do operate Working Timetables, and on lines such as the Metropolitan Line, we even publish detailed timings for each service. As with most other rail operators, apart from at termini, the timings you see are departure times from each station. Sometimes a service may indeed arrive early, and will be required to await its booked departure time. This early running can be the result of the service running so perfect that the in-built recovery time is not needed. Punctual departure times are essential to maintain an even flow of trains in both directions. Whilst, to the casual outsider, it may appear we persistantly strive to annoy people, those with the ability to see the much bigger picture will see it is not done on purpose. To address your individual case, it is likely that your southbound service was running early, and that on this occasion it was not possible to bring the train into Harrow station without affecting other services which were also running to time. Without further detail, I cannot expand much more than this. As you are well aware from the past, if you give me as much detail as you can, I will endeavour to give you truthful reasons for your delay. Hopefully this at least answers the first part of your query. For, and on behalf of, the Harrow Signallers. Metcontrol xx That is a fair explanation and come to think of it trains do usually wait at HOH for a few minutes before departure. I admit defeat on this occasion! |
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Post by citysig on Sept 11, 2011 10:26:31 GMT
I admit defeat on this occasion! Do you have any objection to me printing that post out and framing it |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 10:44:13 GMT
Since when has railway signaling operation become a reality show? What next vote for which train gets priority?
I recommend that you consider getting a model railway as it helps control these sort of urges! ;D
Xerces Fobe
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2011 21:56:13 GMT
Since when has railway signaling operation become a reality show? What next vote for which train gets priority? I recommend that you consider getting a model railway as it helps control these sort of urges! ; I've often asked a visitor to the control room which train I should send first, or shout out the platform number and see what the result is! - Both trains are late and would be out of turn and there would be no impact on the other trains! ;D  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 0:47:25 GMT
Cheers to metcontrol for being a bigger diplomat than i could ever be, although i'm no longer someone that works at harrow i still am by virtue of my licence qualified to still work the cabin and have very recent experience, whether it's this job or the others i did prior to joining lu 9 years back there's always people who think they know the better way to do things but never really know the reality or constraints, and to be frank over time I've gotten sick and tired of Amersham and Chesham passengers thinking thier something else, perhaps it's political on my side, I dunno but we all just wanna get to and from places quickly and without fuss, sometimes i'm a passenger too! One cannot claim they pay a premium one their fares, that's simply because the county council's in bucks and herts don't subsidise fares.
I would ask that the people you pay to operate and manage services on your behalf can be given trust in what we do, and remember when you work as a signaller you are very much empathasing with the bigger picture whilst micro managing the immediate area, yours a licensed, experienced instructor at harrow cabin
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 7:00:05 GMT
This us a poorly designed layout compromised due to the need to joinn the met and network rail fast lines whilst integrating with the met slow and uxbridge branch. The up fast has to cross the down slow and join the up slow in order to enter Harrow. In the ideal world you would have a flyover/ diveunder to achieve this so that the fasts could cross over both and enter harrow on the north side of the station and be on the fast track southbound. Maybe the met should have kept it's slow/ fast configuration through Harrow, with the fasts flanking the slow lines, but this would have required an uxbridge style diveunder for the Watford branch. However you still would have needed room to build a flyover to carry Chiltern up fast over to the south side of the station. Maybe an interesting side topic on what best solution would be to reduce conflicts on thus section particularly as a greater frequency service will create more conflicting movements in future!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 7:07:39 GMT
Actually, what might be interesting is a note of the working times for met fasts sb and the booked arrival times @ Harrow. Poss passing times Harrow N a's well. What are the official timing points between Ricky and Harrow?
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Post by citysig on Sept 15, 2011 10:28:32 GMT
Give us your blank cheque, and anything is possible with regard to making the layout better (although, to be honest, it's done OK for the last 50-odd years). Save you flyover/under ideas for the dedicated area of the forum that is probably no doubt full of them.
As for timing points, fasts are timed at Harrow Station, Moor Park (not Chilterns) and Watford South Junction then Rickmansworth. Locals are timed at the same locations, plus each station they call at.
For the matter in question, off-peak booked arrival times on the southbound are generally in this pattern:
02½ (ex Chesham)
04½ (ex Watford)
09 (ex Uxbridge)
12½ (ex Amersham)
14½ (ex Watford)
19 (ex Uxbridge)
19 (ex Aylesbury)
24½ (ex Watford)
29 (ex Uxbridge)
32½ (ex Chesham)
34½ (ex Watford)
39 (ex Uxbridge)
42½ (ex Amersham)
44½ (ex Watford)
49 (ex Uxbridge)
49 (ex Aylesbury)
54½ (ex Watford)
59 (ex Uxbridge)
The Harrow North Junction timing is approximately 1½-2 minutes earlier. Ex Uxbridges are booked a ½ minute stand. Ex Amersham/Cheshams are booked a 2½ minute stand. Stand time won't always be taken in the platform, and may be used up when pathing trains across the junction in either direction. So for instance, rather than delaying a Watford train that is ½ minute late, much better to work it through first, then allow the ex-Amersham to arrive maybe only 1 minute earlier.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 13:15:18 GMT
Err, slightly confused..according to PTT, the departures for watford are 4,14, 24...etc, but you have got WTT arrival times as 4 1/2, 14 1/2 etc. What are the WTT dep times then?
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Post by citysig on Sept 15, 2011 13:47:32 GMT
They are the arrival times for the southbound. Departures to Watford are on the northbound. Maybe I confused things by mentioning a Northbound Watford service in the example in my post.
Yes they are taken from the Working Timetable, because to demonstrate the actual workings in and around Harrow, the Passenger Timetable would not give as clear a picture. We work in half-minute increments on the Met.
I rarely see a Passenger Timetable, but generally the timings are rounded-down I believe, to ensure you don't miss a train that has departed ½ a minute earlier. As you have quoted the Watford northbound times, this theory is confirmed, as the WTT has them actually departing ½ a minute later.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2011 13:56:49 GMT
Sorry, mistake in my post  , i do mean Watford Southbound. These are the quoted times in the WATFORD TUBE guide from TFL. PTT says 4, 14 etc. Your arrivals due 14 1/2, so WTT departure maybe 5, 15 etc. Can you post arr and dep times from WTT to clear up please, SB and NB. MAny thanks. ;D |
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Post by citysig on Sept 15, 2011 17:17:30 GMT
Generally a train will be allowed 30 seconds dwell time in the platform, so the departure times are the time shown + any stand time booked / or 30 seconds after arrival.
So the passenger guide clearly gives people a chance to catch the train - by getting them to wait a good half minute before arrival, but undoubtedly gives people the impression that all those services depart 1 minute late ;D
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, i do mean Watford Southbound. These are the quoted times in the WATFORD TUBE guide from TFL. PTT says 4, 14 etc. Your arrivals due 14 1/2, so WTT departure maybe 5, 15 etc. Can you post arr and dep times from WTT to clear up please, SB and NB. MAny thanks. ;D
