Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2005 8:53:26 GMT
Hi folks, I've read plenty of comments on this forum about Firefox, so I am thinking of installing it. Can anyone on here tell me what the main advantages are? I already have spyware software installed (AdAware SE), so what are the other advantages. My ISP is NTL  Can I still have IE installed as well? As my wife may want to carry on with that?  Thank you in advance, Dave  |
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Phil
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RIP 23-Oct-2018
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Post by Phil on Aug 17, 2005 9:00:52 GMT
I'm no expert but I can tell you you can keep both IE and firefox installed: I use firefox and my son uses IE each with a different start page. Odd things are not compatible though- for example Firefox will not run Epson web-to-page printing. One set of protection (I use Panda) covers both setups.
Now over to the real experts.......
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Post by banana on Aug 17, 2005 9:28:48 GMT
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Post by compsci on Aug 17, 2005 9:29:59 GMT
Apart from the mainly cosmetic (but useful stuff) such as tabbed browsing, the biggest advantage is that Firefox is not part of Windows, so if it were to be compromised the worst that would happen is your bookmarks being changed or similar. As my wife may want to carry on with that? You should actually do everything possible to persuade your wife to change as well. A high proportion of spyware gets through by popping up an "Do you want to install shiny thing signed by foocorp?" box, which my mother would immediately click yes to. Firefox intentionally gets really annoyed if things don't seem right. There are websites which don't work properly in Firefox, but this is because there is something wrong with them, and the rather dodgy implementation of HTML which IE uses. Keep IE for these as needed. (Not that you can actually get rid of it anyway because of my first point). You may find that Firefox is a bit slower to lead than IE, but again this is because it is separate from Windows. |
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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 10:05:12 GMT
Firefox is the dog's ball hooks
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Is that meant to be a pun?........ Fox? Dogs? ball hooks?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2005 10:49:33 GMT
For heaven's sake! Nobody should be using Internet Explorer or Outlook. They have so many security leaks that they are a danger to any PC's health. Use Firefox for browsing, and preferably a separate program such as Eudora for e-mail. Neither of them has a scripting language, so a malicious program cannot get them to send messages to everyone in your address book. If you use separate programs for browsing and e-mail, you can greatly cut down on spam by simply not putting your real e-mail address into the browser when you set it up. One of the three most common methods of harvesting e-mail addresses for spam is that a web site quietly asks your browser "What is your user's e-mail address?", and your browser supplies it without your even knowing. The ONLY time you should use IE is if you encounter a badly designed site (such as which does not work with other browsers. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2005 18:53:55 GMT
Correct, Firefox is greta, get it, after all its free!  |
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Post by q8 on Aug 17, 2005 19:11:31 GMT
The ONLY time you should use IE is if you encounter a badly designed site (such as which does not work with other browsers. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Not so much badly designed as intentional. I was told that by a person who works for Microsoft. Also IE and other Microsoft software has built-in but hidden spyware and trackers. You can't have secrets when using MS Try running spybot and you'll find it will show up some items that actually load when XP and other MS stuff is installed. Another thing is this re-booting after any software is installed. You watch your modem or router light during the process and you'll see it is reporting back everything you've just done and your registry status as well. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 17, 2005 22:56:24 GMT
Ummm. I think there's a touch of paranoia here. Think of the practicalities: my Registry is around 8 Mb, and if you multiply that by the millions of Windows users you would end up with an enormous database that would cost Microsoft huge amounts of money to administer. There is just no commercial case for collecting detailed information from all Windows users.
The reboot after installing new software is needed because most installations make changes to the Registry and Windows, being badly designed, will not recognise those changes without a reboot. Any modem light flashes are probably just your PC re-establishing connection with the web. To send the contents of the Registry would take a few minutes with broadband, and up to half an hour with dial-up.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2005 5:58:40 GMT
Thanks guys. Firefox now installed and in use!
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Post by q8 on Aug 18, 2005 7:59:09 GMT
Ummm. I think there's a touch of paranoia here. Think of the practicalities: my Registry is around 8 Mb, and if you multiply that by the millions of Windows users you would end up with an enormous database that would cost Microsoft huge amounts of money to administer. There is just no commercial case for collecting detailed information from all Windows users.
The reboot after installing new software is needed because most installations make changes to the Registry and Windows, being badly designed, will not recognise those changes without a reboot. Any modem light flashes are probably just your PC re-establishing connection with the web. To send the contents of the Registry would take a few minutes with broadband, and up to half an hour with dial-up.
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No Mr S it's not paranoia it's fact. I knew someone who works for MS and he says that there are checking items built into all MS software. It does not matter what you are doing it is reporting all the time. It's the same with data. You may think you have a programme that cleans, wipes/deletes/whatever items on your hard drive you want to lose. But no matter WHAT you do it is still in there somewhere.
It is not of concern to most of us but it will probably worry a bad geezer
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Post by compsci on Aug 18, 2005 8:12:27 GMT
But no matter WHAT you do it is still in there somewhere. There's a little truth in this. IE stores the address of every website you ever visit in a file called index.dat (just google for this). It is possible to empty this, but it's a little tricky. It's also true that deleting something doesn't necessarily remove it from your hard disk, as deleted stuff is only usually overwritten when the space is needed (which could be a rather long time). Even then it's sometimes possible to see the magnetic signature of what used to be there. The solution to this is to use "shredder" software, which write rubbish over the file you wish to destroy sufficient times to make it impossible to get anything meaningful back. I'm pretty much certain that the phoning home bit is rubbish however. |
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Phil
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RIP 23-Oct-2018
Posts: 9,473
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Post by Phil on Aug 18, 2005 11:09:56 GMT
It's also true that deleting something doesn't necessarily remove it from your hard disk, as deleted stuff is only usually overwritten when the space is needed (which could be a rather long time). Tell me something then compsci: if I delete things from the hard drive then defragment the disk, does that wipe the deleted items or does it move them as well? |
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Post by compsci on Aug 18, 2005 11:18:43 GMT
Tell me something then compsci: if I delete things from the hard drive then defragment the disk, does that wipe the deleted items or does it move them as well? Deleted items are classed as free space (which is shown as white in the XP defragmenter). The defragmenter will treat them in exactly the same way as free space which has never been used. It might move something else on top of the old file in its efforts to consolidate free space (more likely if the item is in the middle of lots of used space), but it can just as easily leave things where they are (more likely if the deleted item is near lots of other bits of free space). One thing it won't do is move any leftover data in a free space area, since it considers this to be meaningless junk. But it won't make any efforts to wipe this properly either. In summary, if you expect defragmentation to clean stuff from your hard disk, you could be in for a shock. |
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Post by banana on Aug 18, 2005 11:19:11 GMT
It's also true that deleting something doesn't necessarily remove it from your hard disk, as deleted stuff is only usually overwritten when the space is needed (which could be a rather long time). Tell me something then compsci: if I delete things from the hard drive then defragment the disk, does that wipe the deleted items or does it move them as well? You shouldn't be using an disk layout that requires "defragmentation". However the answer is "possibly" depending on whether or not the defragmentation program decides to re-use the block that was used by your deleted item. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 18, 2005 11:27:49 GMT
No Mr S it's not paranoia it's fact. I knew someone who works for MS and he says that there are checking items built into all MS software. It does not matter what you are doing it is reporting all the time. It's the same with data. You may think you have a programme that cleans, wipes/deletes/whatever items on your hard drive you want to lose. But no matter WHAT you do it is still in there somewhere. I think your friend who works for MS is winding you up. try asking him why MS wants all this information, and what they could possibly do with it. If you use a program that properly wipes the "unused" areas of your hard drive, the information that used to be there is gone forever, and not even MS could get it back. You know much more about LU than I do, but I have earned my living from PCs for 15 years. |
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Post by compsci on Aug 18, 2005 11:29:09 GMT
You shouldn't be using an disk layout that requires "defragmentation". Well quite. If only Windows supported them . (Note that I'm a Linux user). More intelligent filesystems are actually better in some ways and worse in others with regards to deletion, as their complexity makes it nigh on impossible to recover a deleted file as it could be all over the place and the information regarding what is related to what is gone. However, shredding software doesn't work properly either as it can't be sure of being able to specify the correct area of disk to overwrite with rubbish. |
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Post by q8 on Aug 18, 2005 12:15:53 GMT
You know much more about LU than I do, but I have earned my living from PCs for 15 years.
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Yes that is understood and respected. But it's not MS that wants the info. It's NSA and GCHQ. As for your comments about hard drives well they are perfectly true but when you are online the bloody PC is transmitting all the time and not even PC experts can stop that.
So even if you HAVE wiped your hard drive it's too late as they already have the stuff they want via the phone line. Believe me they know more about you than you do yourself.
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