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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2011 19:52:49 GMT
Hey all Was on a new met train from Aldgate which was supposed to be a Fast Chesham Service. Get to Baker Street and it turns into a Fast Uxbridge service which is fantastic for me but hear a good few mumbles of discust from chesham passengers  However the display kept displaying Fast to Uxbridge, stopping at Wembley Park. The driver spoke to us all saying that there wasn't an option on his driver screen to select a Fast Uxbridge service without stopping at Wembley Park. We end up crawling pass Wembley on the fast lines, still saying leave the train for Wembley park with connections to the Jublee Line  With all this modern kit, why couldn't they have thought of every possible option for routes? Seems rather silly to be honest  |
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Post by citysig on Aug 30, 2011 20:03:06 GMT
Interesting. The original confusion surrounding where the train was going was caused by there being no available S-stock qualified operator at Aldgate - so it was firstly made into another service, then changed (with the drivers being swapped at Harrow - the Chesham service was right behind, and hopefully this was passed on?).
As for the information screens, I am surprised a fast Uxbridge (non-stopping Wembley) cannot be shown. I was under the impression that all "standard" Met descriptions in regular use, would be transferred onto the S-stock. So they may not be able to show all of the variables we used to have years and years ago (fast from Finchley Road to West Harrow and stuff like that) but the Semi-Fast Uxbridge description is one that was in use until only a few timetables ago.
I'll make enquiries on that one, as it is a regular occurance to have Uxbridges run via the fast to regain time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2011 21:46:21 GMT
Hey thanks for the intersting post! I would have thought that all the drivers would have been trained to use S Stock by now allowing for training period( How long does it take for an A stock driver to learn how to drive a S stock?) and number of drivers spare to be trained.
The driver informed the passengers of the change of destination at BakerStreet, with no advice given where to go. Most Chesham passengers seemed to leave the train and went on the platform next door(1 or 4?).
However there was no information that there was a chesham service behind us at Baker street or Harrow on the Hill.
I believe it was also the first time I have heard the driver actually speaking on the S stock, instead of voice overs! While I'm happy to have a voice over explain we're are waiting at a red signal, after a few minutes it be nice to have the driver explaining!
While I'm talking about the service, may I have abit of a rant?
When heading home on the Uxbridge Branch from the city, my biggest bug bearer is being on a Watford or Amersham train slowly making its away into Platform 3 at Harrow and you see the Uxbridge train closing it's doors.
Thus leaving a good 100+ people very annoyed that they have to wait around 10minutes for the next service!
Are the drivers not told to look and listen for an incoming on the opposite platform? Its twice as annoying when your on a amersham/Chesham train on a hot day and having to leg it through huge crowds of people from 1 to 4! Is there any plans to upgrade the crossing, so that Amersham trains can always use platform 3 again in all weathers?
Then another thing popped in my mind, 50% of the time, there's aways a wait to get into Rayners Lane station, most probley due to picadilly train at the platform. Is it not possible to adjust the timetable for a smoother cross over times?
Thanks!
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 30, 2011 22:01:00 GMT
Seems odd. I have been on fast S Stock trains twice - both BKS to AMS. They were both during the off peak, and so at this time, all trains call at Wembley Park. The announcement before arrival at Finchley Road is: "The next station is Finchley Road. Change for the Jubilee line, and all stations Metropolitan line services. This train calls at Wembley Park" - which is obviously a reference to the fact that it is off peak.
I presume that during the peak, the CIS would say "The next station is Finchley Road. Change for the Jubilee line and all stations Metropolitan line services calling at Wembley Park, Preston Road and Northwick Park" - an presumption. I don't know for sure.
What I do know is the CIS/DVA during the off peak on fast trains say (before arriving at WPK) - "The next station is Wembley Park. Change for the Jubilee line and all stations Metropolitan line services calling at Preston Road and Northwick Park"
MetControl - How does the CIS do the off peak/peak announcements? Does the on board system know when the peak time has begun, or does the driver select it?
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Post by citysig on Aug 30, 2011 22:06:54 GMT
The driver informed the passengers of the change of destination at BakerStreet, with no advice given where to go. Most passengers seemed to leave the train and went on the platform next door(1 or 4?). However there was no information that there was a chesham service behind at Baker street and Harrow on the Hill. That is a shame, because the driver (who was actually the driver for the Chesham service from Harrow) was told to advise customers. When heading home on the Uxbridge Branch from the city, my biggest bug bearer is being on a Watford or Amersham train slowly making its away into Platform 3 at Harrow and you see the Uxbridge train closing it's doors. Thus leaving a good 100+ people very annoyed that they have to wait around 10minutes for the next service! Are the drivers not told to look and listen for an incoming train? This has been covered elsewhere, but for your benefit as I see you are a relative newcomer... We do run to a timetable, and this means that the Uxbridge service is timetabled to depart Harrow at xx. The Watford and Amersham services also have their respective arrival and departure times. We simply do not have the room to hold all services to inter-connect at Harrow. During times of disruption we arrange certain connections to help keep people moving. But when the service has minimal delays (as tonight) we cannot always do this. When the service is more or less right-time, it is best to wait for the service you actually require, rather than hedging your bets on a "gamble connection" at Harrow. When the time comes for you to "take the first train to Harrow and change" we will do our best to let everyone know this, and arrange the necessary connections. Moving to your final point on that subject, unfortunately when our drivers are given a clear signal at Harrow, they have limited visibility of other arriving services, and can normally only see their own platforms as far as closing the doors safely is concerned. Then another thing popped in my mind, 50% of the time, there's aways a wait to get into Rayners Lane station, most probley due to picadilly train at the platform. Is it not possible to adjust the timetable for a smoother cross over times? Thanks! The timetable, on paper, has everything working like clockwork. The Picc trains arrive with ample time to detrain / pass through before the Met needs the platform. However, it sometimes doesn't work out like that - particularly in the peak. There are also times when your Met train may be running slightly ahead of schedule. Take a typical example. Peak time. 1 Met train which has called at all stations from Aldgate, versus 1 Picc train which has called at all stations from Cockfosters. Which one is more likely to arrive bang on time and pass through the junction on its booked path, and which one will arrive slightly late and have to wait for the other train to leave? If you can predict each and every train, and get it right, I'll give you a slip of paper and ask you to mark off 6 numbers for the next Lotto draw ;D The new Met timetable in December aims to improve the number of "conflicts" on the Uxbridge branch, but unfortunately it still relies on the majority of trains on both lines being virtually on time. Our signallers on the branch do their best to keep things moving and if ever you are held up, the decision will not have been taken lightly. |
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Post by citysig on Aug 30, 2011 22:10:17 GMT
MetControl - How does the CIS do the off peak/peak announcements? Does the on board system know when the peak time has begun, or does the driver select it? The CIS is set-up by the driver. It is the same as winding the destination blind (albeit electronically) to show "Amersham Fast" or "Uxbridge" but with a little more detail included. I'll have a look into what can and cannot be displayed hopefully tomorrow. |
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Post by uzairjubilee on Aug 30, 2011 22:14:51 GMT
Cool, thanks. I'd love to know more about the CIS.
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Post by causton on Aug 31, 2011 0:36:59 GMT
I'd like to know a bit more about the S-stock CIS as well, travelling on a fast southbound train that skipped Wembley for the first time - which was set up correctly! Also, as this was part of the same trip (and I don't want to start a new thread), MetControl, what happened with the trains I were on earlier? Got to Uxbridge at just before 8pm and no trains were around for a while, then 3 came in at once. Got on the first one which came in which was the first to leave at 8:05pm (without the driver making any announcements about destination or the 'stand clear of the doors' etc...) then as soon as we got to Harrow it was suddenly a very rushed 'all change please all change please this is Harrow on the Hill all change please" - I then caught an S stock at about 8:20-8:30ish which was "fast" and skipped Wembley Park with the destination Moorgate! Can't see anything in the timetables referencing this. At least the S stock driver was very helpful, telling people which platform for the all stations train, alight at Barbican so you don't have to walk through the subway at Moorgate, etc etc  Side note: Minor issue, but the word 'fast' is corrupted on the CIS (from "This is a fast Metropolitan line service to Amersham" etc), at least on the 2 trains I was on (sorry no unit numbers) - although from December it won't really be needed as much |
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Post by citysig on Aug 31, 2011 9:36:59 GMT
Yesterday evening was one of those evenings where fairly minor problems occured, and inconvenienced a few groups of people.
It was a mixture of late-running trains (mainly caused by a lack of S-stock passed train operators) and a couple of stock changeovers at Harrow. The changeovers were to allow units to get back to depot overnight for booked maintenance (otherwise the A-stock won't last as long as we need it to!) The units would not have needed changeovers if we hadn't switched them in the city - because of the lack of S-stock drivers!
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Post by causton on Aug 31, 2011 17:17:15 GMT
Indeed, I was surprised at the amount of S stock around yesterday! How many are not S-stock passed yet as a rough percentage? Thanks for explaining why - I guessed that was it Would that 'fast' train normally skip Wembley Park or was that combined with the Moorgate reversal (and the driver reducing dwell times - the CIS could barely announce the station name before we pulled off again!) to get it back on schedule? |
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Post by metrider on Aug 31, 2011 17:35:28 GMT
One of the trains that I regularly travel on daily, a Northbound, Peak, Semi-Fast Watford has been running as S stock for a few weeks now.
About 50% of the journeys the CIS is correctly set up to be Semi Fast Watford (not mentioning Wembley Pk), but about as often the CIS does say "This train stops at Wembley Park" In all but one case the driver has either corrected this by Finchley Road, or made suitable announcements (or just stopped at WPK briefly for the hell of it).
Maybe the option for setting Semi fast to Harrow is not obvious???. Maybe you could issue the drivers with 10 year olds to handle the computers ;D
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Post by t697 on Aug 31, 2011 21:42:05 GMT
All stations, Semi-fast or Semi-fast non-stopping Wembley Park are all available for Uxbridge and Watford trains. Amersham, Chesham and Ricky can also be Fast or Fast non-stopping Wembley Park as well as the first 3.
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Post by citysig on Sept 1, 2011 11:21:08 GMT
t697 has beaten me to it. I have seen the list of what can be displayed and it is by no means limited - far too long to list here - and that's just what is available for the Met Line.
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cso
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Post by cso on Sept 1, 2011 11:34:10 GMT
That's a pity - as out of noseyness it would be interesting to see the details |
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Post by citysig on Sept 1, 2011 21:27:39 GMT
;D Maybe one day when I have a lot more time on my hands.
Basically there looks to be 2 A4 sized pages full of the various options. All current destinations are shown with variations including fast or local, stopping or non-stopping Wembley etc. etc. So take an A-stock blind and treble it ;D ;D
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cso
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Post by cso on Sept 2, 2011 0:09:51 GMT
You need a scanner Maybe it would be easier to request it under the FOI Act - then someone else would have to provide it rather than you  |
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Sept 2, 2011 4:06:07 GMT
Now this sounds juicey!
I forget the stopping codes for the Met, but the ones that aren't regularly used anymore, are they still technically valid to issue? If so, are they available for S stock use?
Presumably MC, the list to which you refer also includes S7 routes? Any oddballs in there, like Northfields or the Pics route to Uxb?
The list would be a most interesting document to peruse!
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Post by citysig on Sept 2, 2011 17:33:36 GMT
Maybe it would be easier to request it under the FOI Act - then someone else would have to provide it rather than you Now this sounds juicey! Presumably MC, the list to which you refer also includes S7 routes? Any oddballs in there, like Northfields or the Pics route to Uxb? Now let's not get too carried away here! If I can't reproduce the destinations here, let's not go down the road of FOI requests. You would still be unlikely to get hold of them. Not only that, but that kind of thing does tend to draw the wrong attention. They may wonder how you know there are such lists... Had I had time to type them all in (and not scan them - I have a scanner ) I would not be attaching the codes you need to make them work. I do have to respect my company's security. Whilst I did not have a great deal of time to read the document (I was running the railway at the time) I did not notice any S7 codes or destinations which are not already "standard" on the Met - by "standard" I mean all of the variations we need to run the railway. There won't be anything "odd" as, unlike a blind, it can "easily" be updated to show new alternatives. |
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castlebar
Planners use hindsight, not foresight
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Post by castlebar on Sept 2, 2011 18:03:36 GMT
With all due respect, this sort of thing is NOT what FOI requests are for. And the cost of each of these to the taxpayer is something quite shocking.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2011 22:03:26 GMT
Just saw two S stocks in Ricky south siding one of which was train 407 to Chalfont & Latiner... hmm.
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