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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 18:42:57 GMT
Apologies if there is a similar thread for this - I did some digging around and couldn't find it.
I wanted to start a discussion about Bank Station. It has been announced that in 2018, TfL intend to start some major works to remedy the severe congestion within the station during peak hours. These are some of the particular issues that passengers experience at the moment:
1) Congestion in the middle layer of the station, in line with the Northern line platforms, and lateral movements especially.
2) Long ingress/egress times
3) Poor accessibility to all platforms
4) Station temperatures are very uncomfortable at certain times of the year.
5) Poor vertical movements between layers. The DLR station in particular suffers from overcrowding primarily caused by lack of escalators up to the middle (Northern line) layer.
Does anyone know any of the detail around the plans for the station? I think it's well understood that one option seriously being considered is to tunnel a new Northern line platform and use an existing platform for lateral interchange - vital in my opinion.
Personally, I don't think that'd be enough. I'd like to see an exit to the street above the Northern line platforms (around Nicholas Lane or Abchurch Lane), and this exit should be a shaft which extends all the way down to the DLR station, via the Northern line tunnels.
I'd also like to see some serious consideration given to air-conditioning Bank Station. When the DLR station was built, it was proved that cool air CAN be pumped into the station at depth. Now it's time to do that for the rest of the station.
Finally, I think that the existing escalator shaft down to the DLR should be widened if possible to take 3 escalators.
Oh, and almost forgot. That subsurface tunnel between the Central Line "ring" and the Northern Line lift shafts is FAR too narrow for the number of people using it. I wonder if it would be possible to build a cut and cover link underneath King William Street at almost full width in order to allow better subsurface movements between the different escalator/lift shafts. Presumably, if this was extended all the way to Monument, then this would join my proposed shaft at Nicholas Lane.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2011 18:44:42 GMT
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Post by edwin on Aug 7, 2011 1:49:45 GMT
I'd also like to see the Central line station re-aligned without the ridiculously curved platform. But I don't really see how it's possible...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 11:32:55 GMT
Would also be good if we could get entrances at the west end of the Waterloo & City platforms, to provide better access to the Mansion House area and reduce congestion on the platforms.
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Post by flippyff on Aug 7, 2011 13:20:22 GMT
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 7, 2011 14:54:18 GMT
Wrong end of the platforms - this may reduce congestion at the surface and on the travolator, but will feed even more people into the east (buffer stop) end of the platforms themselves. |
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 7, 2011 18:38:34 GMT
Cannon Street station is a stones throw from that end, isn't it....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 7, 2011 23:18:18 GMT
The East end can't be far from the ticket hall/subway at Mansion House.
Of course, my desire for an entrance at that end is nothing to do with my new office being near Mansion House :-)
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Post by superteacher on Aug 8, 2011 9:49:22 GMT
Wasn't there an idea to divert one of the Northern line tracks and make the area between the platforms bigger, in a similar way to what was done at London Bridge in the 90's?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 8, 2011 10:16:47 GMT
Correct - that's what TfL are consulting on at the moment.
It seems that they are also planning to add 4 high capacity lifts, presumably to this wider area
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 8, 2011 10:38:46 GMT
What will happen to the DLRs area, are they still realigning the platform tunnels eventually?
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North End
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Post by North End on Aug 8, 2011 11:53:11 GMT
Wasn't there an idea to divert one of the Northern line tracks and make the area between the platforms bigger, in a similar way to what was done at London Bridge in the 90's? The plan, if I recall correctly, is to build a new southbound tunnel and platform. This could be an interesting piece of work, for unlike the London Bridge diversion which was constructed from the JLE working site at Redcross Way, I'd imagine there are few if any suitable sites available in the Bank area. I wonder if the King William Street tunnels might be used for access? |
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Post by abe on Aug 9, 2011 7:43:46 GMT
That's an interesting thought, but the problem is getting to the KWS tunnels. The original station shafts are under Regis House, which was rebuilt about 10 years ago and so unlikely to be in a condition for redevelopment (which might have allowed coordination of works). The running tunnels southwards are on steep gradients (the old SB in particular), with sharp curves, and are only 10'2" in diameter. They've also been severed at London Bridge by JLE work, so I suspect that the opportunity for using them would be very limited.
How about a return of the 'umbrella', this time over the road junction at Bank or Monument?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2011 11:01:18 GMT
maybe they could close King William Street for a few years?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 19:06:17 GMT
I'd also like to see the Central line station re-aligned without the ridiculously curved platform. But I don't really see how it's possible... Hmm. Looking at the geographic maps, the platforms must sit right where the Central line tunnels make a sharpish turn Northwards towards Liverpool Street. If we're prepared to accept the Central line platforms being shifted further North, there is scope to soften that curve by beginning a gentler turn earlier after St. Pauls. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 20:58:38 GMT
I'd also like to see the Central line station re-aligned without the ridiculously curved platform. But I don't really see how it's possible... Hmm. Looking at the geographic maps, the platforms must sit right where the Central line tunnels make a sharpish turn Northwards towards Liverpool Street. If we're prepared to accept the Central line platforms being shifted further North, there is scope to soften that curve by beginning a gentler turn earlier after St. Pauls. ... assuming that there's nothing else in the way. Like basements. Deep ones. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2011 21:03:15 GMT
also, surely it must be time to move St Pauls anyway and create a proper interchange with the Thameslink and City Thameslink.
A radical solution could be to put the Central Line platforms on the other side of the Bank of England, but I'm not sure what it would achieve (apart from straighter platforms) as the interchange to the Northern Line wouldn't be that great.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 26, 2011 7:47:26 GMT
Were any plans drawn up for this when Thameslink was at the design stage? In terms of 'straightening' the Central, would this bring any significant operational benefits?  |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Aug 29, 2011 15:16:29 GMT
I suppose that if they are gonna reconstruct Bank (and thus Monument), they could do something about the fact that if you want to change from the Central to the Circle or District, that you basically have to walk through nearly every platform, causing overcrowding at many platforms.. (or they can make sure that if you go above ground that it will be charged as a single journey on your Oyster card)
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Post by superteacher on Aug 29, 2011 19:27:01 GMT
I suppose that if they are gonna reconstruct Bank (and thus Monument), they could do something about the fact that if you want to change from the Central to the Circle or District, that you basically have to walk through nearly every platform, causing overcrowding at many platforms.. (or they can make sure that if you go above ground that it will be charged as a single journey on your Oyster card) You can get from the Central platforms to the District & Circle via the DLR route, which takes you between the DLR platforms but not actually onto them. Not sure if this is allowed at the moment though during the escalator upgrade works. |
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Aug 29, 2011 19:34:27 GMT
I suppose that if they are gonna reconstruct Bank (and thus Monument), they could do something about the fact that if you want to change from the Central to the Circle or District, that you basically have to walk through nearly every platform, causing overcrowding at many platforms.. (or they can make sure that if you go above ground that it will be charged as a single journey on your Oyster card) You can get from the Central platforms to the District & Circle via the DLR route, which takes you between the DLR platforms but not actually onto them. Not sure if this is allowed at the moment though during the escalator upgrade works. But it is still unhandy. A main walkway or something would be useful. (it's like a 1km walk underground, and lots of stairs  ) |
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Post by superteacher on Aug 29, 2011 19:40:29 GMT
You can get from the Central platforms to the District & Circle via the DLR route, which takes you between the DLR platforms but not actually onto them. Not sure if this is allowed at the moment though during the escalator upgrade works. But it is still unhandy. A main walkway or something would be useful. (it's like a 1km walk underground, and lots of stairs ) I do agree - it's never been an ideal interchange. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2011 21:30:23 GMT
You can get from the Central platforms to the District & Circle via the DLR route, which takes you between the DLR platforms but not actually onto them. Not sure if this is allowed at the moment though during the escalator upgrade works.
That is a terrible long walk and far too many stairs and very narrow in places, paticulalrly for someone of more mature years. At least if you go via the Northern platforms it is fairly roomy, and you don't need to go so deep and climb back up again..
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Post by superteacher on Aug 29, 2011 21:36:36 GMT
You can get from the Central platforms to the District & Circle via the DLR route, which takes you between the DLR platforms but not actually onto them. Not sure if this is allowed at the moment though during the escalator upgrade works. That is a terrible long walk and far too many stairs and very narrow in places, paticulalrly for someone of more mature years. At least if you go via the Northern platforms it is fairly roomy, and you don't need to go so deep and climb back up again.. Although negotiating the Northern platforms during the peak is an experience! |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 29, 2011 23:22:03 GMT
My preferred route from District/Circle to Central/W&C would be to use Cannon St (if open), cross the road in front of the station, and walk up Wallbrook to the Bank entrance by the Magistrates Court.
Much less up & down and you don't hit the congestion in the low level of the station or have to deal with the traffic on King William St.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 30, 2011 0:11:22 GMT
They should really link the new Walbrook entrance of Bank to the D/C at Cannon Street through a low level passageway. Would give Bank a lot more flexibility in times of disruption and works!
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Post by chrisvandenkieboom on Aug 31, 2011 14:34:03 GMT
My preferred route from District/Circle to Central/W&C would be to use Cannon St (if open), cross the road in front of the station, and walk up Wallbrook to the Bank entrance by the Magistrates Court. Much less up & down and you don't hit the congestion in the low level of the station or have to deal with the traffic on King William St. But that would be seen as 2 separate journeys (quickly after each other though) |
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Post by mrjrt on Aug 31, 2011 23:20:14 GMT
*cough*RIPAS*cough* ...or, remove the curves completely by extending the Central east via the DLR tunnels and the W&C to Liverpool St...  |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2011 0:27:33 GMT
But that would be seen as 2 separate journeys (quickly after each other though) According to the October 2010 list of OSIs (posted at londonreconnections.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-osi-list.html) Bank to Cannon St is an OSI, so you shouldn't get charged for multiple journeys. This assumes the list hasn't changed as escalator refurbishment work at Bank has progressed, but I don't see why it should as it's such an obvious interchange. EDIT: Reading through the comments, there does seem to be some doubt as to whether that list is actually accurate and whether than Bank-Cannon St OSI exists. Seems daft if it doesn't, but then common sense can't always be relied on when it comes to Oyster. |
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Post by Deleted on Sept 1, 2011 8:32:14 GMT
Any realignment to the Central Line platforms at Bank would mean shutting down Liverpool Street to Holborn, one of the busiest sections of the Tube, for a very, very long time.
Somehow I don't think local businesses aka The City would think the changes were worth the disruption.
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