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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 15:44:09 GMT
I wonder if anyone would be kind enough to help me as to how to configure a mainline signal for part of a layout which is slowly making progress. I have attached a sketch of the track in question which shows two mainline loops that interchange at an approach to a surface platform. The question is about signal C21 where mainline tube trains can be switched from track 102 to run along track 108 (hence the feather) which would put the train onto the "Inner Circle (tube)" part of the layout. Also, it is set up so that a train on 102 can be shunted onto 105 for reversing purposes. I have configured C21 with this in mind and wonder if this is correct, as it would be for say Bakerloo or Jubilee Line working. I am overseas, so getting to London is not trivial. Thanks! s1204.photobucket.com/albums/bb404/cyberman12/Model%20Railways/stuff/?action=view¤t=Picture25.png |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 16:00:02 GMT
Looks fine to me. If you want to be 100% accurate you'll need a limit of shunt marker at the end of the point you want to go up to on 105 road.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 17:19:51 GMT
If that station is used to reverse trains, then you probably want a non-shunt route from C21 to track 105, and a fixed red signal at the far end of the platform. Otherwise, since it's a shunt route, it would not be usable by trains with passengers.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 17:23:48 GMT
Thanks Charlie J, That's reassuring, as I'm about to spend a bit of money on this stage of the layout. I take it just a disk shunt indicator in danger would suffice for the marker? If not, will try and find a picture.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 17:55:11 GMT
I quote Colin from another thread:
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 18:25:04 GMT
Perhaps I should clarify the intent of operating. I am aiming for maximum flexibility, so that I could run from 102 to 105 with passengers and terminate at the platform, then reverse out onto track 704 with passenger service on the return journey. Perhaps "shunt" is the wrong term here?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 18:26:35 GMT
Have you found and looked at Harsig's diagrams? For location see here - they will give you how the real thing is. But I was trying to think where something like your arrangement exists (or existed) on the London Underground - and struggling. Possibly the nearest equivalent to your C21 is/was EC57/58 at High Street K (Harsig's Cromwell Road diagram). And I was wondering why your C22 has a feather... |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 18:32:34 GMT
Oh yes, didn't spot C22 - why on earth does that have a left diverging route when there isn't one?
What you actually want to do is have two feathers on C21. One flat to the right and the other 45 degrees up to the right. The angled one is for the 105 road and flat for 108 road, and a FRL at the bang road end of the platform on 105. Where you'd put a shunt stick would be on C23 for using 102 to reverse 105 to 102 platform.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 18:50:32 GMT
C22 has a feather left because at the right end of the platform there is a junction which can join 108 with a later block on track 102. Basically a mirror image of this representation. I wanted to have full x-over of the two loops in both directions. A lot of thought has gone into this to get the best fit in the space provided.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 19:02:14 GMT
So what you're saying is there is also a route available, not shown, from 110 into 105?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 19:14:44 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 19:15:33 GMT
C22 has a feather left because at the right end of the platform there is a junction which can join 108 with a later block on track 102. Basically a mirror image of this representation. I wanted to have full x-over of the two loops in both directions. A lot of thought has gone into this to get the best fit in the space provided. Is there no platform on the inner (tube) circle (between 115 & 108? I thought there was, and would expect the feather to be on the signal at the right hand end of it (or in the same place if there wasn't a platform) Edit: Having seen the second diagram, the signal I describe would be level (more or less) with C25. The same comment applies to C29, for right to left run: i.e. each x-over should have its own set of four signals (two with feathers). Not sure why the siding is as it is, but I would expect its exit signal (C24) to be a shunt |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 19:25:38 GMT
This was thought out carefully, due to space constraints, so that both the tube circle and surface circle lines can interchange giving all trains the ability to use this one platform (Which will become Thames South with foot bridge to a Southern Rail station next to it).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 19:56:22 GMT
Thanks! Comments very helpful. Move C22 with feather along 108 to about level with C25. I should still have a signal where C22 is to protect the X-over and points at the left side of the platform? Change C24 to a shunt disk. C29 has the shunt disk for the siding on 118, so perhaps put additional signal further a long 115 at parallel spot to C23 and add RH feather there?
Sound more proto-typical ?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Jul 21, 2011 20:09:36 GMT
It's usual for signals on parallel tracks to be positioned at the same locations lengthwise along the route, as this makes it less likely a signal for one line will be mistaken for another. So i'd expect signals on the main (non-platform) lines somewhere near C23 and C25.
I may havde misunderstood, but how do trains from the lower route (C22, C28) reach the platform
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 20:17:01 GMT
From C22 a train can proceed along 108 and take the left points to 104 main line continue around the loop (takes about a minute at scale speed) and the train will be at C21 and enter 103 at the platform.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 21:11:07 GMT
Thanks! Comments very helpful. Move C22 with feather along 108 to about level with C25. I should still have a signal where C22 is to protect the X-over and points at the left side of the platform? Change C24 to a shunt disk. C29 has the shunt disk for the siding on 118, so perhaps put additional signal further a long 115 at parallel spot to C23 and add RH feather there? Sound more proto-typical ? Yes, I think so - if I understand what you intend - the other thing you need is a fixed stop signal opposite C25, for trains arriving on 105 wrong way. But these having gone on their way (having reversed), where do they terminate (or do you have another station somewhere?) |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 22:13:20 GMT
There are hidden sidings on the inner circle (tube). Good point on the stop signal. I can use a disk ground permanently in stop or a light signal?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Jul 22, 2011 0:46:07 GMT
It would be a light - non-UndergrounD practice would on rare occasion use a fixed disc.
Further to the parallel lines, that isn't strictly the case depending on what era you are modelling - can you tie it down to 5 years or so for when you would have had the signals put in?
EDIT: Expect an email... I might have something up my sleeve.
It's bounced from both addresses I've got for you... Hmmm..
EDIT 2: You should have a d/l link on a popular social networking site - let me know if you've got it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2011 3:04:14 GMT
Modelling 60-70s ish
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