Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 18, 2011 13:13:51 GMT
I was caught up in the disruption on the Central Line this morning. There was a good service on the DLR and no information about the tube while I waiting at Gallions Reach shortly before 9am this morning.
When I got to Canning Town, there were no announcements about the service during the 7 minutes I was waiting for a Stratford train.
The first I knew the line was suspended was when I was between the Jubilee Line platforms and the subway at Stratford. The only advice about alternative routes was to use mainline or DLR services - neither helpful for getting to Loughton. Fortunately the 257 bus to Leytonstone arrived a minute after I found my way round the pavement works to the bus station.
When I got to Leytonstone at about 9:40 there were frequent, helpful announcements from the station staff, including where to go to find the 257 to Stratford (for the mainline and Jubilee) and the W15(?)/W19 to Walthamstow.
Despite the suspension having been ongoing for "longer than an hour", it was only after I had been waiting ~15 minutes for an eastbound train (that was due in 9 minutes) that someone seemed to get their act together and send one of the two trains sat in the westbound platforms back east. How long they had been sitting there I don't know, but the crowds on the eastbound platforms suggested that it had been a long time before a train had called there. The first Epping train from platform 3, despite being "ready to depart" was held in the platform for a further ~3 minutes until the train in platform 1 had departed first so we didn't pick up many passengers en-route, but there were several stationary sardine cans on the westbound.
Why did it take so long to organise a shuttle service?
Why were there no announcements anywhere before Stratford? When there is a good service everywhere, engineering works yesterday, or minor delays south of Kennington they're keen to spam our ears as often as possible.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 16:52:14 GMT
Why did it take so long to organise a shuttle service? Only Wood Lane Control Room can answer that. Why were there no announcements anywhere before Stratford? Ditto with wherever the Jubbly Control Room is |
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 18, 2011 17:28:41 GMT
It won't help much, but it flashed up on my phone & Twitter feed, after which I posted it in the chat area at 0921, and that wouldn't have been too long after it first flashed up, so I presume news wasn't getting through.
Can't remember where it was now, but there was a faulty train Stratford-ish way (from [terrible] memory) so I presume word wasn't getting from A to B?
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 18, 2011 17:44:46 GMT
I think it was at Liverpool Street?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 18, 2011 17:50:17 GMT
Why were there no announcements anywhere before Stratford? I'd suggest that if other lines are like the District, it could be up to 30 minutes before anyone on a given line is aware of an issue. The reason is that the Line Information Specialists (trust me, it's only a job title  ) are measured on their announcements at 00 and 30 past each hour via the train radio, so that is when service updates are broadcast - at least to us drivers. Station staff will have access to other sources but if they are also relying only on the LIS, well it could also be at least 30 minutes until they become aware. |
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Post by Chris M on Jul 18, 2011 21:18:27 GMT
I think it was at Liverpool Street? Yes, the reason given was a defective/broken down train at Liverpool Street. Given the suspension was Liverpool Street to Leytonstone, I presume it was actually east of the station (although I'm not familiar with the track layout in the area). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 21:41:50 GMT
There are two reversing sidings to the east so the defective train must have been east of the sidings.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 23:05:44 GMT
Also Bethnal Green cross over is currently out of commission, therefore the suspension area would have gone back to Leytonstone.
Sounded like a major headache as trains were detrained, and moved into the tunnels empty to facilitate the detrainment of full trains. As far as I understand a push out was implemented to shift the defective train.
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Post by uzairjubilee on Jul 18, 2011 23:08:51 GMT
Oh dear, must have been very cumbersome. I imagine the train following the defective one reversed E-W via the crossover west of LIV, or did it terminate and go into the sidings?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 18, 2011 23:16:26 GMT
I am not sure as to what actually happened, but the train was sat down for 45 minutes. The E-W move over (10 points), is loathed to be used in normal working for it tendency to fail. So I would suggest even if they could have used this crossover, the potential to fail would have compounded the situation and mess up both directions of service.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 19, 2011 10:26:23 GMT
Why were there no announcements anywhere before Stratford? I'd suggest that if other lines are like the District, it could be up to 30 minutes before anyone on a given line is aware of an issue. The reason is that the Line Information Specialists (trust me, it's only a job title ) are measured on their announcements at 00 and 30 past each hour via the train radio, so that is when service updates are broadcast - at least to us drivers. Station staff will have access to other sources but if they are also relying only on the LIS, well it could also be at least 30 minutes until they become aware. Wow, the Disy sucks! Wood Lane they are pretty sharp at spotting when the job goes up the wall and screaming “next platforms and hold” over the radio. I bitch about them not passing info but it sounds as if Earl’s Court are far worse. The only problem with our Line Info bods is that they main requirement for the position seems to be some sort of speech defect. I think it was at Liverpool Street? Yes, the reason given was a defective/broken down train at Liverpool Street. Given the suspension was Liverpool Street to Leytonstone, I presume it was actually east of the station (although I'm not familiar with the track layout in the area). There are two sidings east of the platforms and an E-W crossover west of them. With the crossover at Bethnal Green out of action that leaves us with Leytonstone and Holborn as the next reversing points. And we’ve had problems with Holborn points recently. Skimping on maintenance work? |
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jul 19, 2011 10:50:05 GMT
I bitch about them not passing info but it sounds as if Earl’s Court are far worse. District controllers & line info are now based at Baker Street. The only problem with our Line Info bods is that they main requirement for the position seems to be some sort of speech defect. Sounds like the District is similar to other lines then (hence my choice of smilies above). |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 0:36:21 GMT
I am not sure as to what actually happened, but the train was sat down for 45 minutes. The E-W move over (10 points), is loathed to be used in normal working for it tendency to fail. So I would suggest even if they could have used this crossover, the potential to fail would have compounded the situation and mess up both directions of service. Really? Why is it likely to fail? I'm also curious about why Bethnal Green's crossover is offline - I've been over that crossover and I ever noticed any particular feature that would make it likely to be a problem either. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2011 15:06:51 GMT
I'd have thought that great efforts would have been made to ensure that all crossovers are kept in full working order. 'Bail-out' options on the Underground are a bit limited, so those that do exist really do need to be available for use whenever necessary.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Jul 20, 2011 17:00:48 GMT
I'd have thought that desirable too, however in recent years the trend on the underground has been almost inexorably towards simplicity over flexibility.
Presumably it looks cheaper.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 20, 2011 17:14:49 GMT
I'll have to get a picture of the new Lincoln layout to describe what I mean, but both sides of the station have places where rolling stock can switch lines, and while I appreciate it'd be impossible in tunnel sections, surely something similar could be both sides of outdoor stations without too much expense?
A bit non-descript I'm afraid, and I can't draw for toffee, but it's a sort of "S" shaped section between the two running rails, so if anything is sat down, they could switch platforms and keep a (albeit reduced) service operating in both directions.
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Post by Colin on Jul 20, 2011 17:28:47 GMT
If only it were that simple eh!!
It costs hundreds of thousands of pounds to install a set a points. then you have the signalling, if you can find someone able to design it.
I wouldn't mind betting you'd see little change from a million quid to install a crossover these days. And there's your problem. Remember that fares aside, you are talking tax payers money here as well.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Jul 20, 2011 20:13:05 GMT
Appreciate what you're saying, but at some point in the not too dim and distant future, track will have to be replaced, so why not add switchovers at the same time?
That said, it's not a solution, the only real solution is when the drivers learn to fly the things - I know it all too well from trying to explain to passengers that I'm late for no other reason than sheer volume of traffic, and that I'd have been there earlier if I could fly the damn thing over the traffic.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2011 1:15:49 GMT
I'd have thought that great efforts would have been made to ensure that all crossovers are kept in full working order. 'Bail-out' options on the Underground are a bit limited, so those that do exist really do need to be available for use whenever necessary. The W-E crossover at Queensway hasn’t worked since I started on the trains, we’ve got signal equipment over 50 years old on the Circle. Spend money on the Tube? In a parallel universe maybe. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2011 22:17:45 GMT
Really? Why is it likely to fail? I'm also curious about why Bethnal Green's crossover is offline - I've been over that crossover and I ever noticed any particular feature that would make it likely to be a problem either. The points at Bethnal Green have been replaced with a new type of points (well, new to the central line anyway), called surelocks, they haven't been commissioned yet so the crossover remains out of use. |
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