bombardier's derby works.

Thats a shame because, Bombardier products are miles better than Siemens products. Take Electrostar vs Desiro. The Electostar imo wins, due to comfort, ride quality and aesthetics.

I read that a lot of the losses are going to be temporary contract staff anyway... as long as the place keeps a-buildin'.

It seems like introductory reliability is higher with the Electrostars but long-term is better on the Desiros. Take Class 378 compared to Class 380.

Having used Desiros more now, I quite like them. However, must say, I really like the 377s. Hard to tell really, but I think it'd be better if they were built here.

DOO cameras are hardly a problem compared to an entire fleet being rejected!

ISTR the method of introduction was quite different with the Desiros, with each train being tested rather thoroughly for flaws before being shipped in. That may have something to do with it being a lot harder to take back to the factory. It wasn't a flawless ride with the Desiros though!

Bombardier has a test track facility that has 3rd and 4th rail, and OHLE!

And it is useless for mileage accumulation as it is far too short, being within the works. It can be used for testing that everything works, but they can't get any train upto design speed on it nor really do mileage accumulation.

Even the Asfordby test track (owned by Alstom not Bombardier) is not the best design for mileage accumulation as it is an end-to-end line. It is being used for the S-stock (Metronet arranged for the necessary alterations), but hadn't been used for mainline stock between the class 390s and the class 172/0 units.

Maybe Bombardier should offer a new diesel or electric locomotive?

Hmm, maybe they should make a loco that isnt based on a European design as sorry but I find European trains really really ugly!

It does matter. As your not just going to buy trains just because its from your own country. If another countries train is better than your own, naturally people would go for that. But in this case they are not better trains at Siemens which is why I brought it up.

Isn't Bombadier a Canadian firm?
Do we even HAVE an indigenous rail industry anymore? Where the profits actually remain in this country?

British Rail > British Rail Limited > ABB > AdTranz> Bombardier > LoL (According to the BBC).

92ts was built by ABB.
Piccadilly line was refurbished by Bombardier.
D stock was refurbished by Bombardier.
09ts was built by Bombardier.
S stock was built by Bombardier.
Class 378 was built by Bombardier.
Class 172 was built by Bombardier.

New ScotRail trains?
C2C?
List is endless...

It's not like they haven't had work, especially considering they've only built 33 odd S Stocks and have to build 181 in total. TFL have spoilt them...

Where did I read that the Government were informed that Bombardier were to cut 1,300 staff regardless even if they won the Contract?

One of the reasons that Electrostars may seem better to the passenger than Desiros is that the original internal specification was higher. According to the SWT men I have spoken to Siemens had never been asked to build a train to such a low specification before. Also, in these days of private railways, the most important critieria for ordering a new train is cost. The cheapest will always win through.

As for locomotives, the final two nails in the British loco building industry in my opinion were the class 60s and the class 92s. From delivery of the first one to actually getting a class 60 into full revenue service took 18 months. It took five years from thier introduction to get a safety case to run the 92s up the WCML. I've never been on a 92 but I used to drive class 60s and they are a Rolls-Royce of a loco as far as a Driver is concerned. However they were expensive compared to the 66s (which came nine years later) and reliability issues have affected them. Of course the railway couldn't have forseen problems with a fleet of locos built with Mirlees power units, could they?

The simple fact is that British train-building industry may build better trains but it simply doesn't matter these days, Privatisation made sure of that. It did annoy me that a Government spokesperson mentioned that this contract was only a tiny percentage of manufacturing in this country. Bombardier is 100% of the railways manufacturing industry in this country! It's very difficult not to be political but .............

But most other countries buy trains that are made in, or from companies owned by their own country, why do we need to ship/drag across europe, new trains when we can get them from Derby with less hassle. Although Bombardier have the largest rolling stock order ever placed in the UK to deliver 700+ S stock vehicles to 4 different lines, surely the losses didn't have to be that drastic.

How true.
The last 32 years have left our economy lop-sided and vulnerable to fluctuations which are completely outwith our control.
Tomorrow,Bombadier could decide that manufacture is cheaper in (insert country of your choice) and there would be NO rail industry left in this country,and we would be entirely dependant upon imported goods...as has happened with (say) electrical goods.
The country for too long has been run by people who know the price of anything,but the value of nothing.