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Post by edwardfox on May 30, 2011 20:21:09 GMT
If there had not been fierce competition between early rail companies, could one huge terminal have been built to take services coming into present day Kings Cross, St. Pancras and Euston.
In the event the approach to one of the three terminals is totally blocked, can a limited service operate into one of the others?
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Post by younglulnerd on May 30, 2011 20:40:47 GMT
Perhaps King's Cross-St Pancras could have one go to the other (don't know though).
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Post by superteacher on May 30, 2011 21:08:15 GMT
A good thing when Fenchurch Street is ever closed is that some services can be diverted into Liverpool Street. At one time, it was also possible to do this the other way round, but I'm not sure that it's physically possible any more.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 30, 2011 21:29:46 GMT
There is still an NR link from Stratford to Limehouse - singled to make room for the DLR near Bow Church. Both LSt and FSt were owned by the GER, the latter through its London & Blackwall subsidiary, the LTS only having runningb powers (in the same way the SER owned London Bridge through the smaller but older London & Greenwich)
In the north, until 1871 the Midland's access to London was via Bedford, Hatfield and Kings Cross, and ponly later did they build a terminus of their own. Euston was originally planned as a joint station for the London & Birmingham and the GWR.
Possibly the nearest thing we had to a Grand Central station is Farringdon! The Met was planned as a City extension for the GWR and GNR, (and later the Midland), and the LCDR also extended there from the south.
H
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Post by metrailway on May 30, 2011 21:58:16 GMT
The international platforms at St Pancras IIRC are connected to the ECML, WCML (via the North London Line), and MML to allow for possible trains from the North to go to Europe. I think there is a link between the ECML and WCML (again via the North London Line) bypassing both King's Cross and Euston.
Out of Central London, the Chiltern Main Line is connected to both Paddington and Marylebone, and during the WCML upgrade some Virgin services ran to Euston from the Chiltern ML via Greenford and West Ealing. Of course this also means that the GWML is also connected to Euston.
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 22:09:33 GMT
In the north, until 1871 the Midland's access to London was via Bedford, Hatfield and Kings Cross, and ponly later did they build a terminus of their own. Euston was originally planned as a joint station for the London & Birmingham and the GWR. At an earlier stage access from the Midland was to Euston, connecting at Rugby. The LMSR had a project in the '30s for a unified London terminus - I think at Euston - not quite sure how far it got. And BR had a proposal under the modernisation plan to rebuild Kings Cross and St Pancras as one. |
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Post by Deleted on May 30, 2011 23:39:53 GMT
There was a plan for the Watford DC lined to be linked to St Pancras via a tunnel and then on to Bedford. Sliding door stock was proposed which looked very similar to the Liverpool- Southport Class 503's.
Xerces Fobe
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 19:09:57 GMT
The international platforms at St Pancras IIRC are connected to the ECML, WCML (via the North London Line), and MML to allow for possible trains from the North to go to Europe. I think there is a link between the ECML and WCML (again via the North London Line) bypassing both King's Cross and Euston. Indeed this section of line is used as a diversion for the Caledonian Sleeper services to/from Scotland when work is taking place on the West Coast Main Line. Out of Central London, the Chiltern Main Line is connected to both Paddington and Marylebone, and during the WCML upgrade some Virgin services ran to Euston from the Chiltern ML via Greenford and West Ealing. Of course this also means that the GWML is also connected to Euston. There are a series of possessions coming up on the West Coast Main Line that will see Virgin services diverted via the Chiltern Main Line, starting in November. |
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Post by Deleted on May 31, 2011 20:57:41 GMT
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Post by Chris M on Jun 5, 2011 20:59:47 GMT
Chiltern trains can run into Paddington, and the Great Western has connections to Waterloo. Whether the reverse is also true I don't know in either case.
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Post by roythebus on Jun 12, 2011 13:46:21 GMT
The problems with diversionary routes are: driver and conductor route knowledge; traction compatability (not a problem in the old days when everything, well nearly everything, was compatible); line capacity, deffo a problem these days, stock availability.
With (1) for instance, there would be few FGW drivers who know Reading-Waterloo for instance, line capacity is at a premium into Waterloo. No ECML drivers would know into St.Pancras, no MML would know into Kings Cross and so on..
Route knowledge used to depend on a driver going over a route every 6 months to keep the knowledge, though many left it up to a year or more depending how often they knew the route.
While a super "London Central" terminal, or better, through station would be ideal, we are not in an ideal world! The closest we will get is cross-London links like the WLL/ELL/Crossrail/Thameslink etc.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2011 18:23:33 GMT
Another problem is that the companies would rather take the delays and blame the infrastructure companies and take the compensation than attempt to run a service. Joined up thinking such as this became history on the modern railway a very long ago!
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Post by mikebuzz on Aug 22, 2011 19:52:15 GMT
The London & Birmingham was going to share Paddington with the GWR but the two rlys fell out. You can see how the WCML curves west after Willesden Junction. It was heading straight for North Kensington but instead the L&B built their own terminal.
One remedy was attempted by the Met with their own City terminus but none of the railways were particualry interested. The idea was for the GWR, LNWR, GNR and newboys MR to run trains past Paddington, Euston, St. P and KX into Moorgate. The LNWR didn't even complete their link.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Aug 22, 2011 21:28:12 GMT
Chiltern trains can run into Paddington, and the Great Western has connections to Waterloo. Whether the reverse is also true I don't know in either case. No direct access to Marylebone from the GWML without reversal, although of course they can get there from Bicester and beyond on the Birmingham line. SWML can get to Paddington via the Basingstoke - Reading link. ECML to WCML is possible using the "North London Incline" and the Primrose Hill line. |
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Post by mrjrt on Aug 23, 2011 15:47:23 GMT
The London & Birmingham was going to share Paddington with the GWR but the two rlys fell out. You can see how the WCML curves west after Willesden Junction. It was heading straight for North Kensington but instead the L&B built their own terminal. One remedy was attempted by the Met with their own City terminus but none of the railways were particualry interested. The idea was for the GWR, LNWR, GNR and newboys MR to run trains past Paddington, Euston, St. P and KX into Moorgate. The LNWR didn't even complete their link. I was of the understanding that it was Euston that was the intended terminus of the L&B and GW, not Paddington. Which would explain why Paddington is out in the (relative) middle of nowhere, transport-wise. |
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Post by mikebuzz on Aug 23, 2011 19:48:12 GMT
The London & Birmingham was going to share Paddington with the GWR but the two rlys fell out. You can see how the WCML curves west after Willesden Junction. It was heading straight for North Kensington but instead the L&B built their own terminal. One remedy was attempted by the Met with their own City terminus but none of the railways were particualry interested. The idea was for the GWR, LNWR, GNR and newboys MR to run trains past Paddington, Euston, St. P and KX into Moorgate. The LNWR didn't even complete their link. I was of the understanding that it was Euston that was the intended terminus of the L&B and GW, not Paddington. Which would explain why Paddington is out in the (relative) middle of nowhere, transport-wise. My bad. It was the other way round. That'll teach me to cite something from long lost memory! The GWR was going to share Euston. |
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