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Post by retep on May 2, 2011 13:30:18 GMT
i know it was 1986 or before as i saw a vid on youtube of when the Heathrow Terminal 4 Station before the station was opened to the public.
And why don't the DMI's in stations of the Uxbridge branch Piccadilly Line tell you how long the train is taking to come?
Why doesn't Harrow on the Hill station have DMI indicators, i don't trust the old fashioned ones they have, they aren't as clear to understand. And Harrow on the Hill station is where lots of Metropolitan trains separate to their own branch.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2011 15:22:46 GMT
Early 80's at Balham I believe, then shortly after that most of the northern line. My dad was telling me about a time when alot of the indicators on the northern never used to work back in the 80's, LT then put up a poster about why they werent working and somebody wrote GIGO on it - old computer speak for Garbage In Garbage Out, the story back in the day was that LT payed on the cheap to computer programmers that didnt really do the job very well or something along those lines and the DMI's used to display rubbish.
The best ones IMO were the ones made for the central line in the 90's, can still be seen at Holland Park and Tottenham Ct. Road with red and green text.
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Post by retep on May 2, 2011 15:40:39 GMT
The best ones IMO were the ones made for the central line in the 90's, can still be seen at Holland Park and Tottenham Ct. Road with red and green text. Yeah i like those DMI's, i don't travel on the Central much but they shouldn't change those DMI's, they don't seem to have changed the original ones.
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Post by Dstock7080 on May 2, 2011 16:29:19 GMT
Trial version installed St. James's Park EB platform May 1981. (previous BETTER version in background, which used to illuminate with "next train in 40 seconds" !) tinyurl.com/6bmn7c9
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Post by retep on May 2, 2011 20:34:40 GMT
The best ones IMO were the ones made for the central line in the 90's, can still be seen at Holland Park and Tottenham Ct. Road with red and green text. Yeah i like those DMI's, i don't travel on the Central much but they shouldn't change those DMI's, they don't seem to have changed the original ones. so they have changed the original DMI's
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2011 21:37:51 GMT
The ones at Harrow on-the Hill are very reliable I think, ive never seen it display the wrong destination or stopping pattern
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Post by railtechnician on May 2, 2011 21:49:32 GMT
Yeah i like those DMI's, i don't travel on the Central much but they shouldn't change those DMI's, they don't seem to have changed the original ones. so they have changed the original DMI's There have been several types of DMIs, some of the earlier models faded in the sunlight on outside stations such as Edgware Road. Of course originally the DMIs simply replaced the existing train describer signs but they were still driven by the original TD equipment. That is probably still so in many locations and is also why they don't display 'time to next train' very well in some places. You need to understand that back in the days of illuminated TD signs across the system they were mostly driven by ribbon storage and drum TD equipment. These systems worked on the principle of transmitting the description ahead as a train left certain retransmission points, initially the description was 'punched up' by a signalman and then transmitted ahead as the train departed the station and replaced the starting signal. For instance a train departing Wood Green WB Picc would cause the description to be forwarded to King's Cross where it was stored and illuminated the local TD sign but would also cause the TD signs at the intermediate stations to be illuminated with the next train destination. Thus there was apparently a long wait at King's Cross and a very short wait at Turnpike Lane. The Northern line worked differently because it had a positive train identification system which 'knew' the location of trains and put up first, second and third trains on the TD sign when they were a certain distance away from any particular station. At places like Baker Street platform 5 the next train description was not displayed until the next train departed Edgware Road so all that was ever seen was 1 minute. The DMIs inherited information from the previous systems, whichever they were. Thus most DMIs showed pretty much what the old systems did. Bear in mind that because the old TD systems mostly relay upon track circuits to 'see' the progress of a train they don't actually have a concept of time so if a train is displayed as 5 minutes away that could be displayed 20 minutes if the train is not moving! AFAIK new systems were/are being installed which will drive the DMIs more correctly but obviously progress is slow.
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Post by retep on May 3, 2011 20:26:42 GMT
The ones at Harrow on-the Hill are very reliable I think, ive never seen it display the wrong destination or stopping pattern Yeah, probably true, but the signs aren't as clear as DMI's and i think Harrow on the Hill station needs DMI's as the trains branch out and some use fast services and others all station services. It would be clearer to the public as when some trains arrive the destination of the train disappears from the indicator, happened to me today. Btw, i think i need to focus on the indicators more at that station though.
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North End
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Post by North End on May 3, 2011 21:13:51 GMT
The ones at Harrow on-the Hill are very reliable I think, ive never seen it display the wrong destination or stopping pattern Yeah, probably true, but the signs aren't as clear as DMI's and i think Harrow on the Hill station needs DMI's as the trains branch out and some use fast services and others all station services. It would be clearer to the public as when some trains arrive the destination of the train disappears from the indicator, happened to me today. Btw, i think i need to focus on the indicators more at that station though. How can it be said the signs aren't as clear as a DMI ? What is difficult about seeing a destination and a list of stations the train won't be stopping at ?
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2011 21:37:59 GMT
I would say the lightbox's are clearer as the writing is much easier to read and its very straightforward
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Post by retep on May 3, 2011 22:03:12 GMT
How can it be said the signs aren't as clear as a DMI ? What is difficult about seeing a destination and a list of stations the train won't be stopping at ? it doesn't tell you when the train after the next train is coming or where it's going, in my opinion i just find DMI's much more easier to understand, i know some people will feel different but i think DMI's are more understandable to read to the public. It's like comparing the A stocks destination indicator(if that's what you call it) to the S stocks DMI indicator
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Post by Deleted on May 3, 2011 22:43:05 GMT
Yeah, fair enough if thats what you think. Ive always found blinds to be much easier to read than the dot matrix things. You can see where a London bus is going from miles off!
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Ben
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Post by Ben on May 3, 2011 23:20:46 GMT
Comparing the indicators at Harrow to the DMIs at Wembley, I'd consider the Indicators to be the better solution because they show the stopping pattern of the train in its entirity instead of scrolling like the DMIs. However as pointed out these don't show time to arrival, or where subsequent trains are heading. There have been indicators though that have shown these...
Perhaps in the long term as LCD screens become more suitable, they'll be able to replace both, combining the functional and clear layout of an indicator board with the myriad information and size of a DMI screen.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 4, 2011 10:42:01 GMT
Yeah, fair enough if thats what you think. Ive always found blinds to be much easier to read than the dot matrix things. You can see where a London bus is going from miles off! I actually find it the exact opposite! When you get two buses, one with a blind and one with a DMI, the latter is the easiest to see (when both are of high quality). A high quality blind is better than a low quality DMI, but a low quality DMI is often better than an low-quality blind.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2011 14:51:55 GMT
What do you mean by a low quality blind?
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Post by railtechnician on May 4, 2011 15:48:39 GMT
What do you mean by a low quality blind? An excellent question, my answer is one that is DDA compliant! That is to say that it was always easy to tell a destination at a distance when the blinds used all upper case but nowadays it is not so easy with lower case being harder to see clearly until it is much closer. I will always prefer lantern type backlight blinds to dot matrix indicators but that is probably because I grew up with them not just on buses and train describers but also as floor alarm indicators in public telephone exchanges. All those old devices were simple lighting circuits and easy to maintain by changing bulbs or easy to 'reprogram' by changing the blinds/filters. They were probably cheaper to install too! New technology is not necessarily progress though it is difficult to convince any young design engineer of that!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on May 5, 2011 8:41:26 GMT
What do you mean by a low quality blind? One that is badly designed, badly lit, badly aligned, badly set, dirty and/or wearing out, etc. These days at least they are more common than good ones.
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Post by metrailway on May 5, 2011 22:25:43 GMT
The ones at Harrow on-the Hill are very reliable I think, ive never seen it display the wrong destination or stopping pattern Yeah, probably true, but the signs aren't as clear as DMI's and i think Harrow on the Hill station needs DMI's as the trains branch out and some use fast services and others all station services. It would be clearer to the public as when some trains arrive the destination of the train disappears from the indicator, happened to me today. Btw, i think i need to focus on the indicators more at that station though. Personally, I prefer lightboxes. DMIs don't show all the information all at once, whilst lightboxes do. Also lightboxes are large and clear, especially in a place like Harrow, where an Amersham/Chesham could arrive at either platform 1, 3, or 4 so punters have to see all of the indicators clearly on the platform .
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Post by retep on May 5, 2011 23:53:52 GMT
The s stock and 2009 stock uses DMI indicators but what type of destination indicators do the 1996 and 1995 stock use? Why didn't they use DMI indicators.
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 6, 2011 7:54:28 GMT
Personally, I prefer lightboxes. DMIs don't show all the information all at once, whilst lightboxes do. Also lightboxes are large and clear, especially in a place like Harrow, where an Amersham/Chesham could arrive at either platform 1, 3, or 4 so punters have to see all of the indicators clearly on the platform . There certainly used to be lightboxes at some Met stations which not only showed the stopping patterns, but also showed 1st 2nd and 3rd trains
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Post by norbitonflyer on May 6, 2011 8:01:25 GMT
That is to say that it was always easy to tell a destination at a distance when the blinds used all upper case but nowadays it is not so easy with lower case being harder to see clearly until it is much closer. DDA prefers upper-and-lower case because lower case letters vary much more in size and shape than block capitals, so the general shapes of the words can be distinguished at a greater distance.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2011 9:14:54 GMT
The s stock and 2009 stock uses DMI indicators but what type of destination indicators do the 1996 and 1995 stock use? Why didn't they use DMI indicators. I've always liked the indicators on the 95s - the quirky segmentation of the letters is really nice, I'd guess they're backlit LCD panels?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on May 8, 2011 18:15:05 GMT
New technology is not necessarily progress though it is difficult to convince any young design engineer of that! Please, not 'any'. Unless you're counting me as old school!
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Post by t697 on May 9, 2011 22:52:51 GMT
The s stock and 2009 stock uses DMI indicators but what type of destination indicators do the 1996 and 1995 stock use? Why didn't they use DMI indicators. I've always liked the indicators on the 95s - the quirky segmentation of the letters is really nice, I'd guess they're backlit LCD panels? Yes the cab front displays on 95TS and 96TS are two different makes of backlit LCD segmental displays. At the time LU standards encouraged or insisted on LCD for the external displays. Typically over prescriptive! 92TS had LCD's as built. They didn't last long and were replaced by the LED ones still there.
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