Q-Stock project

They are in Acton Works having asbestos removed. It does look like its running under its own power, how exciting!

I believe the Q23 car needs more work hence it is missing here. The project is going ok from what I hear! Excellent.

www.flickr.com/photos/24772733@N05/5442636772/in/set-72157622143270382/

I wonder if all the parts still work ok?

I really hope the Q Stock does ride again as they are great link the Undergrounds past.

Yesterday at Acton purchased a Q/R trailer body and bogies which I intend to add to the other Q stock cars I already have. So in model form at least Q Stock will run in the future.

Xerces Fobe

Nice to see a bit of interest in the Q stock. What is all this fuss about H&S and cab equipment? what IS the problem?

The stock ran quite happily from 1923 to 1971 with no problems, why should it be any different now?

On the Southern we were running 4SUB and the old W&C stock with similar control equipment, including line volts in the cab under the current H&S regime. Remember too the vintage tram fleet at Crich has line volts control equipment in the cab! and saloon lights run in series from line volts, just like the Q stock. the Gothenberg tramway museum also runs a fleet of cars with loine volts everywhere.

I can understand the need to rewire the units, after all, cable insulation certainly will have been life-expired many years ago, and the last thing we want is the thing to catch fire due to dodgy insulation.

On Q stock, the guards control equipment, the EP brake and Loudaphone work from 110volts from a set of batteries which charge when the train goes one way, and the equipment is fed from the other end batteries when coming back.

The overload resets are line volts, the cab lights are fed in series with either the speedo light or the cab light via the marker lights.

Quite why the Q23 needs to run as a trailer is a mystery. It also has no usable coupling , jumpers or pipes on the west end! It was designed that way.

My last trip on a Q was a pair of Q38 pilot motors taking scrap R stock cars from UP the EC via EBway in about 1972, with motorman Rick Thomas from PG and an Acton m/m on the back pair. It was a lively journey with 4 Q38 motors!

I suspect there's no such H&S problem, it's the usual catch-all when people are unsure.

H&S and EU regulations said at one time that ALL pipes carrying steam had to have x amount of insulation; this would have made every steam loco and every road steam loco unworkable, so an exemption for such things was made! Same as there's exemptions from the DDA for historic rolling stock and vinatge buses..

So if the Q23 has no motors, that makes it a driving trailer!

The motors on the Q23 were a lot newer than the cars themselves. They were delivered without motors and utilised the the motors from the 'B' stock motor cars that were converted trailers. These motors proved unsatisfactory however and new motors were fitted in the thirties. When they were converted to 'Q' stock they received new motors again and when the 'Q' stock was withdrawn the motors were removed and kept as spares for other stock that utilised the same motors. The car in Covent Garden is also motorless. I am not sure which stock used the same motors but if it is/was the A or C stock it should not be difficult to re-equip it with motors.

I believe only three of the cars are now to be restored even to cosmetic condition. The official reason is the cost but, in truth one of Q38 DM's has so much missing it looks like a non -starter even for this level of refurbishment. That means they aren't going to run, especially with only one DM in anywhere like complete condition. The Q23 was never intended to be returned to running condition but kept in the 4 car rake as a trailer. I feel one of the remaining CO or CP cars in preservation elsewhere should be purchased as a donor vehicle. This is regularly done in steam loco preservation circles, but you need the manpower and more importantly the will and money to make this happen. Then ask where the original parts missing from the Q38 went to when taken off in Acton Works all those years ago before the Q stock ever reached the LT Museum site.

With the Q23 running as a trailer it will still be authentic. Let's face it, we should be grateful for having it at all. There is, after all, no prospect of the 4-SUB or 2-BIL ever recreating thier late 1980s exploits as the modern railway is strictly out of bounds to them. To run them would involve rebuilding them to such a degree as to make them not 'preserved' anymore. Can you imagine the Q stock with anti-override pads and buckeyes? The SEG is facing that with the 4-COR and I dread to think what the inner ends of the restored 'Brighton Belle' will look like next year. Wiring the Q stock to modern standards is a tiny price to pay compared to that.

The story from the people actually managing the project is a lot simpler: There isn't enough money to go for restoration to running condition. The plan is to do a largely cosmetic restoration so far, but with everything that would be rendered inaccessible underneath nice restored panelling etc also replaced (including rewiring / ducting for future wires etc)

Its worth noting that the Q38 that appears to be in appalling condition was in that state (apart from the graffiti) because the interior panels etc had been removed to allow for rewiring to take place, before that restoration project was aborted. All of the pieces are still there (I moved most of them to covered storage), so in the fullness of time they can all be put back.

they'd need OTM too, and that would be far from easy given the control systems involved.......

Working in engineers use and working for passenger use are two totally different things. In engineers use the trains only have to go and stop safely (and not necessarily in that order!). Once passengers are introduced a whole new ball game begins. The trains have to have properly working doors (in engineers use they were probably hand-worked) with all interlocks in place and working. Safety systems for passenger use with modern signalling have to be fitted. Seats have to be provided and maintained to a clean and comfortable level. The Q and Standard sets may have looked nice on the outside when in engineers use but I'll bet the inside was a different story.

Should the Q stock or Standard stock ever run again it will be a fantastic achievement but don't let those photos of twenty-thirty years ago fool you into thinking that the trains were in pristine condition then. They were probably prime examples of what a coat of paint could hide! With this in mind the restoration that is ongoing should be applauded and recognised for what it is. It is the best that can be done with the resources available. We should be thankful for that!

How about getting the trains compatible with the new signalling?

True, it's highly unlikely that any preserved railway will be allowed to install third rail. However, the East Putney was upped to 700/750 volts when Q stock was still a daily occurrence.

The motors and compressors will happily run on 750v, the light bulbs will need to be replaced as they are wired to run in series from line volts! As for the main wiring, if that's being replaced, then there's no problem with that taking 750 volts.

4SUBs were only allowed to run past Brookwood on the main with the lights switched off for this reason!

I'd think ATP more likely ;D