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Post by abe on Apr 3, 2008 7:22:19 GMT
Just in from Transport Briefing: www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=4863"London Underground Limited has scrapped a major project to install a new signalling system for the Tube sub-surface lines (SSL), wiping £550m off the value of contractor Westinghouse Rail Systems' order book." Apparently this is more fall-out from the Metronet collapse. TfL will be retendering the contract; Westinghouse is optimistic about re-winning. |
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 3, 2008 7:45:00 GMT
Just in from Transport Briefing: www.transportbriefing.co.uk/story.php?id=4863"London Underground Limited has scrapped a major project to install a new signalling system for the Tube sub-surface lines (SSL), wiping £550m off the value of contractor Westinghouse Rail Systems' order book." Apparently this is more fall-out from the Metronet collapse. TfL will be retendering the contract; Westinghouse is optimistic about re-winning. I don't think that's a surprise really, I expect TfL will be looking to save money in a big way and I would not be surprised to see other cuts or modifications to projects. Down the line I would also not be surprised to see a downsizing of the Metronet workforces either. |
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Post by c5 on Apr 3, 2008 8:05:57 GMT
That's not quite correct. The new signalling work will be re-tendered. In no way is the project scrapped at the present time! Westinghouse already have the contract to do signalling mids to enable the introduction of the new S Stock trains. I do have an internal staff bulletin, I'll see how much of it can be copied here.  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 8:11:09 GMT
That must be major blow to Westinghouse. Although I do not have the actual figures for planned RORITs under Westinghouse's Distance to Go signalling, I would expect that other companies (particularly Thales, Bombardier, and Siemens) offer signalling systems that can handle shorter RORITs.
I get the feeling that TfL are trying to get a better deal out of the contract. But of course, you always get what you pay for!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 10:01:11 GMT
im not surprised as westinghouse themselves cannot get the system to work under control condidtions at chippenham
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 3, 2008 10:27:33 GMT
Does this mean the SSL ATO will not happen (or for a good few years)?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 12:25:50 GMT
I was having a chat with my boss and she informed that the upgrade for the signalling will be pushed back a while and also that when the s-stock starts arriving they will run with tripcocks in manual with the present signalling
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 3, 2008 12:36:22 GMT
Oh dear! How long will it be pushed back do you think?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 12:55:30 GMT
well there was a schedule to cloase signal cabins, comparing figures it looks like around a year now
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 14:11:57 GMT
That's a great shame as the number of seats on the Metropolitan per hour will fall without the new signalling enabling more trains to be run.
Is the Westinghouse system the one that can have non-equipped trains running because of the conventional track circuits used?
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 3, 2008 15:32:37 GMT
Well it's going to murder the Met! Get more seats in!!!
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towerman
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Post by towerman on Apr 3, 2008 18:29:07 GMT
Maybe someone will see sense and have one LUL wide system,although it's too late for the Victoria Line.
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 3, 2008 18:46:19 GMT
Indeed! But the Victoria Line is very separate from the other lines so it could happen!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2008 20:51:22 GMT
I think it is to late for a network wide signalling. The scope would be too much for one manufacturer, and it's too late to design a comptable system that different manufacturers can use (as has been done in NYC and Paris).
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 3, 2008 22:11:50 GMT
Indulge me one sweet, smug smile that the ancient, clapped old bits of signalling kit will have to keep on going for that bit longer.  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2008 0:06:02 GMT
Quite?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 4, 2008 0:12:11 GMT
Could always bring back a man in a red hat and a man in a blue hat I suppose.......... ;D ;D ;D  |
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2008 0:15:18 GMT
Ha ha, yes it worked for the St John's Wood railway! It could work, but will there be any LU staff left-they might be ex Burger King staff brought in to do the job?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 4, 2008 10:05:28 GMT
i am ex-burger king staff and already doing the job! ;D
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metman
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Post by metman on Apr 4, 2008 10:39:05 GMT
Fantastic!!!  |
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Apr 5, 2008 15:35:13 GMT
Oh dear! How long will it be pushed back do you think? About 4 or more years ;D |
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Post by Tom on Apr 10, 2008 19:14:50 GMT
Indulge me one sweet, smug smile that the ancient, clapped old bits of signalling kit will have to keep on going for that bit longer. I'll allow you that smile. But as most of the rooms have been rewired, some of the older relay types are on borrowed time anyway (3 Pos DEVs and SEVs especially) and the lead cables are starting to be renewed with concentric by stealth, I suspect a lot of the older kit won't be around much longer. |
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Post by railtechnician on Apr 11, 2008 7:45:42 GMT
That's not quite correct. The new signalling work will be re-tendered. In no way is the project scrapped at the present time! Westinghouse already have the contract to do signalling mids to enable the introduction of the new S Stock trains. I do have an internal staff bulletin, I'll see how much of it can be copied here. LU has always had its own way of doing things which means that retendering could be for something completely different than the contract between Metronet and Westinghouse although I do agree that it may yet be too early to speculate. Give everyone a little more time to forget as whatever follows is liable to be a political decision. |
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Post by stanmorek on Apr 12, 2008 11:58:50 GMT
Forgive me if I'm wrong but Metronet had a contract with Bombardier to modify and upgrade the signalling system. Bombardier had a subcontract with Westinghouse as their supplier. Metronet (TFL) have now changed the scope of Bombardier's contract because they want to deal with Westinghouse et al directly?
I believe this a point of contention for the transfer of Metronet to TFL. TFL will be inheriting Metronet's contracts with its suppliers and are wanting to renegotiate terms across the board.
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Post by astock5000 on Apr 12, 2008 19:16:36 GMT
I think it is to late for a network wide signalling. Won't the Piccadilly have to use the same type of signalling as the sub-surface lines? |
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Post by c5 on Apr 12, 2008 19:37:38 GMT
I think it is to late for a network wide signalling. Won't the Piccadilly have to use the same type of signalling as the sub-surface lines? They don't know yet. The PPP contract stated that they must be compatible between Barons Court and Acton Town. However they allegedly missed out west of South Harrow, this has now been rectified AIUI. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2008 21:57:30 GMT
I think it is to late for a network wide signalling. Won't the Piccadilly have to use the same type of signalling as the sub-surface lines? The Piccadilly will use Thales Seltrac signalling. The SSLs were going to use Westinghouse TBS100 signalling. Both are quite different. However it is possible to interface two systems on the same track, this has been done in Hong Kong. Alternatively if one line's trains are running on the other line's track they may be able to run in manual using a fixed block "back up" system and colour light signals. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2008 22:14:00 GMT
[quote author =c5 board=Signals thread=1607 post=151482 time=1208029058] Won't the Piccadilly have to use the same type of signalling as the sub-surface lines? They don't know yet. The PPP contract stated that they must be compatible between Barons Court and Acton Town. However they allegedly missed out west of South Harrow, this has now been rectified AIUI. [/quote] Are there similar arrangements for the Metropolitan/Jubilee North of Finchley Road? and Ealing Common to Ealing Broadway. |
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Post by suncloud on Apr 12, 2008 22:44:31 GMT
I think they are moving towards effectively separating the two lines pretty much entirely (presumably bar the links at Neasden).
So what will happen re: engineers trains etc. when different lines are using different signalling systems as they presumably will still need to be moved between lines still. I know some batteries have central ATP (presumably not ATO?) installed as well as tripcocks, but surely they can't install ATP for every different system...
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Post by Ben on Apr 13, 2008 0:29:39 GMT
Well, if theres going to be a backup tripcock system, could they use that? - Tripcocks on the Victoria Line |
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