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Post by earlyelectric on Mar 1, 2011 19:54:03 GMT
I know the Met ran pulman carriages out from London to the end of the line from 1910. Anyone know where the service started in London? and any pointers on where to find details of the carriage?
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Post by rogere on Mar 1, 2011 20:12:17 GMT
There were 2 carriages Mayflower and Galatea, built by Birmingham Railway Carriage and Wagon Co. 57ft 6 overall length.
Service started 1st June 1910
Originally pained Pullman Umber and Cream, they later were painted crimson lake in, I think, 1922.
Service withdrawn in 1939. Aldgate, Liverpool St. and Baker St. were all starting points at various times. Verney Junction, Aylesbury and Chesham were the general outer destinations.
More info can be found in Jim Snowdon's Met Railway Rolling Stock book (published by Wild Swan)
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Post by earlyelectric on Mar 1, 2011 20:16:24 GMT
Thanks for this. Just looked up the Snowdon book, whole chapter on the pullmans so I think I'll have to buy it.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 1, 2011 20:17:04 GMT
About the same time I believe. There were gauging runs using a damaged saloon stock car in 1909-10. The car was eventually rebuilt into a compartment shuttle car and formed the basis for the Dreadnoughts.
The Met had two Pullman cars, Mayflower and Galatea. They were longer than most other cars but were built to the Met loading gauge. They ran initially in Bogie stock trains and eventually the Dreadnoughts. They were vac braked.
They originally sported the traditional umber[?] and cream but were changed to maroon as the tunnel dust took its toll.
They were supplemented on occasion by the Rothchild Saloon but that's another topic. The war caused a suspension of the service and I believe lease issues lead to the LTPB scrapping them in 1940.
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 1, 2011 20:30:37 GMT
The Pullmans were not scrapped straight away, IIRC they were both grounded and one survived until about 1950 in use as a coal office.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 1, 2011 22:10:59 GMT
Really? Those dates must be withdrawals then. Shame they weren't saved. Imagine the revenue that could have been gained......
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 1, 2011 22:19:01 GMT
Actually IIRC they were used by the military 1940-1944ish as officers accommodation. London Transport as it was then were not interested in running such services post war and they were probably beyond repair anyway.
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Post by phillw48 on Mar 1, 2011 22:29:01 GMT
A little tip if anyone wants to model them. The old Hornby-Dublo/Wrenn Pullman is exactly the right dimensions. But the window arrangement will have to be altered as would the vestibule doors/ends. The Snowdon book mentioned above has a drawing of one side of the coach and the LU surface stock planbook by Ian Huntley has a drawing of the other side.
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Post by metman on Mar 1, 2011 22:31:51 GMT
Too much work me thinks....
Would have made for a great mess room!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2011 22:55:49 GMT
There's a very interesting article in the latest (March) edition of 'Underground News' about 'The Metropolitan in 1920'. It includes details of the Pullman car workings in that year. (The article also mentions other 'delights', including the fact that 'Horse and Carriage traffic may be attached at Aylesbury [to the 07.05 Aylesbury - Marylebone] provided it can be done without causing a late start to train.')  |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 0:02:04 GMT
A little tip if anyone wants to model them. The old Hornby-Dublo/Wrenn Pullman is exactly the right dimensions. But the window arrangement will have to be altered as would the vestibule doors/ends. The Snowdon book mentioned above has a drawing of one side of the coach and the LU surface stock planbook by Ian Huntley has a drawing of the other side. The Old Triang Pullman is a similar length with new bogies etc a good representation of a Met Pullman could be made. Xerces Fobe |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 2, 2011 1:30:07 GMT
How about the old Farish OO ones? Would they be a better bet as they had matchboard sides.
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Post by elo10538 on Mar 2, 2011 14:30:28 GMT
I know this is a little off subject but mention of the Snowden book, and historic Metropolitan rolling stock brings me onto the 'Jubilee' Compartment Stock. I have never seen an interior shot of the carriages as original; before some of them went onto the Weston, Clevedon and Portishead Railway and were modified. The one in the LT Museum at Acton will make a wonderful restoration project if they can get the interior correct.
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Post by brigham on Mar 9, 2011 15:15:18 GMT
Also off-topic, but 'Met' rolling stock related; Has anyone seen a photograph of a H&C Joint Stock carriage liveried 'METROPOLITAN & GREAT WESTERN'. All the pictures I've ever seen show 'GREAT WESTERN AND METROPOLITAN', and I'm beginning to doubt that the 'Met'-owned ones ever carried the Metropolitan name first.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 9, 2011 16:08:31 GMT
Not a direct answer to the H&C question as yet. There is hard evidence, however, that there were two varieties of bodyside 'crest', with the order of the company names exchanged.
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Post by tubeprune on Mar 9, 2011 21:23:08 GMT
Page 78 of Mr Snowdon's book has a photo of a car with "METROPOLITAN" first. Officially half the cars were owned by the Great Western and half by the Met.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 9, 2011 23:31:15 GMT
Didn't one side read 'Metropolitan and Great Western' and the other say 'Great Western and Metropolitan'?
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Post by mrfs42 on Mar 10, 2011 1:23:44 GMT
Also off-topic, but 'Met' rolling stock related; Has anyone seen a photograph of a H&C Joint Stock carriage liveried 'METROPOLITAN & GREAT WESTERN'. All the pictures I've ever seen show 'GREAT WESTERN AND METROPOLITAN', and I'm beginning to doubt that the 'Met'-owned ones ever carried the Metropolitan name first. Yes. Cannot for the life of me remember where I saw it, but I assure you there is photographic evidence - might have been a close up of the print in Snowdon as TP mentioned upthread. Didn't one side read 'Metropolitan and Great Western' and the other say 'Great Western and Metropolitan'? Indeed. That is not an urban myth. |
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Post by brigham on Mar 10, 2011 11:22:07 GMT
Didn't one side read 'Metropolitan and Great Western' and the other say 'Great Western and Metropolitan'? Now there's a possibility I've never heard of. That would confuse matters even more. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 22:16:29 GMT
Looking at a few photos I have, one very grotty photo at Paddington H&C definitely shows "Metropolitan &" [doors] "Great Western". Another photo at Kensington Addison Road shows "Great Western" [doors] "& Metropolitan".
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Post by DWS on Mar 22, 2011 22:30:27 GMT
Looking at a few photos I have, one very grotty photo at Paddington H&C definitely shows "Metropolitan &" [doors] "Great Western". Another photo at Kensington Addison Road shows "Great Western" [doors] "& Metropolitan". The Pullman cars only operated on the Met Main Line, not the Hammersmith & City Line. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2011 23:25:53 GMT
Indeedie.
What I was referring to was the query about line names above the windows of H&C 1906 Saloon Stock, which was a bit off topic anyway.
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metman
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Post by metman on Mar 23, 2011 23:19:52 GMT
The Joint stock used BTH150 equipment for their trains, and I think about 8 Met motor cars were loaned to the H&C line as they has the same GE76 motors etc. I wonder if these were altered to have GW on the sides? Probably not! There is a photo of '80' at Hammersmith which the cut out of the roof filled in. The 1906 batch of cars had the top of the clerestory cut out for a roller blind, quickly removed, so I wonder why this was filled in? I'll try and find a photo.
Back on topic, I wonder if there was any thought to providing a pullman service after the war, and I wonder if it would have carried on?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 3:09:02 GMT
I suspect that London Transport was quite pleased when WW2 gave it an excuse to withdraw the Pullman services and first class generally. The executives at 55 Broadway were not sympathetic to the Met's pretentions of being a main-line railway.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 24, 2011 10:34:59 GMT
"The executives" aren't that sympathetic now either - nearer the time, watch the TT changes coming in December!
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Post by t697 on Mar 24, 2011 18:49:05 GMT
"The executives" aren't that sympathetic now either Or as one might speculate; Why should Met line customers have proportionally more seats than our other lines?.... |
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Post by metman on Mar 24, 2011 18:57:38 GMT
The Amersham city worker does have a longer journey than say a counterpart from Upminster for example. Crossrail will also make life easier for those living east and west.
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Post by t697 on Mar 24, 2011 19:21:32 GMT
The Amersham city worker does have a longer journey than say a counterpart from Upminster for example. Crossrail will also make life easier for those living east and west. C2C to Fenchurch St does that for those from Upminster of course. The Met user should live at the line extremes and work at say Liverpool Street so as to be seated both ways! Not so good for those of doing say Harrow to Euston Sq and back. |
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Post by metman on Mar 24, 2011 19:38:52 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2011 19:17:35 GMT
The Met Pullmans lost money pre WW2 , - they were a marketing and status symbol - with the dire economics and real material shortages of "Austerity" Britain - there was no way they would have been reinstated.
Nice though it is to dream of a full English enroute to the City - cooked on paraffin stoves !
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