Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 22:42:48 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 22:42:48 GMT
Just wondering why particular stations/platforms have SATS at certain times and others do not. Is it passenger numbers? OPO equipment failure? Accident hotspots?
Appreciate any help on this.
Robert
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 22:53:10 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 22:53:10 GMT
Busy stations have them. At the headwall of the platforms, there should be an S placed on the headwall boards, to denote that the SATS-person is on duty. Invaribly, the 'S' will still be there, on the headwall board, at 11pm on a Sunday....
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 23:30:49 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 23:30:49 GMT
So the SATS person has the radio mic, does the spiel about 'ready to depart' then waves the train out? I presume they have to keep the baton raised until the train is clear?
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 23:44:12 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 23:44:12 GMT
Yep, SATS-person should be doing what you say and in theory, they should indeed keep the baton up until the train completely leaves the station... in practice, some do, some don't... From a passengers point of view, it might seem odd that the SATS-person is holding the baton up for the whole time... but rules is rules.
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 23:51:16 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 23:51:16 GMT
Surley if they drop the bat you should emergency stop? Or am I sloping down H&S overkill?
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 12, 2011 23:56:01 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2011 23:56:01 GMT
Yep, SATS-person should be doing what you say and in theory, they should indeed keep the baton up until the train completely leaves the station... in practice, some do, some don't... From a passengers point of view, it might seem odd that the SATS-person is holding the baton up for the whole time... but rules is rules. On lines without in cab OPO CCTV they do use their common sense and lower the bat once the first car has gone!
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 0:00:56 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 0:00:56 GMT
Common sense is an amazing concept when you think deeply about it.
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 7:25:47 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 7:25:47 GMT
There are no rules when it comes to SATS, I’ve never been able to find anything about them in the rulebook though if someone can guide me to the relevant page I’d be much obliged. SATS were just being introduced when I was about to go for TOp and the training I got was somewhat informal to say the least. My experience would suggest that not much has changed.
From my own empirical observation, what I see on my CCTV in the cab of a 92ts, everyone seems to do their own thing. Some raise the baton before I start to close the doors while others wait till the doors are closed before sticking it up.
Some put the arm straight up as I seem to remember is required while others just raise the baton to about shoulder height or to the side, pointing towards the front cab but usually away from the camera.
Some stand where we can see them (the clue being the platform CCTV markings) and others perform their duties in a place where we can only see them from the waist down thanks to overhanging signage or dot matrix describer.
In order to stop a train in an emergency the SATS should wave both hands above their head, they can do that without a baton and there is no instruction for what to do in the event of dropped baton.
One interesting point, I once waited to be given a clear signal by a SATS and was hauled up for delaying the service. It was spelt out to me in no uncertain terms that while the SATS are there to assist we do not have to wait for them to do their thing before leaving, especially if they are too busy chatting to a colleague to do their job……….
As for lowering the baton after the first car had left the platform that was actually brought in after a couple of months after SATS were introduced, can’t remember if we were told why, we usually aren’t.
Remember what you might think is common sense someone else might think is utterly stupid, it's all very subjective.
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 8:32:10 GMT
Post by Tubeboy on Feb 13, 2011 8:32:10 GMT
Bat is withdrawn after first car has left the station, thats standard across the combine, unless there is a CCTV issue at fault, and its an in cab CCTV line, bat should only be withdrawn, once the whole train has left the platform.
The SATS person is there as a guide. The driver is in charge of the doors closing and departing.
As for some station staff doing SATS incorrectly, thats down to poor training, initial or refresher, locally and/or network wide. Competence management is rarely done in my experience, and even when it is, its carried out by inexperienced managers. Thats been my experience the 8 years I have worked at LU.
At my station, SATS in the morning has been cut from 3 hours to 75 minutes, and from both platforms being manned to only one. In the evening, SATS has been withdrawn altogether.
If drivers think its been bad in the past, getting assistance etc, well its now a lot harder thanks to the roster changes.
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 9:43:22 GMT
Post by auxsetreq on Feb 13, 2011 9:43:22 GMT
To see an expert SAT in operation, go to Holborn CL WB platform during the evening peak. Without doubt the best SAT ever, popular with the punters and staff. Throughout the years the routine has basically remained the same, but is modified every now and again. To facilitate the exit being further down the platform he now does an extra trolley dolly routine by waving his bat to point to aforementioned exit. Take earplugs to minimise hearing damage as he likes to have his Tannoy set to turbo, and last week, coupled with his *strep throat* we were treated to a a one million decibel gyrating dalek..................." THANK YOU FOR YER CO-OPERAYSHERN, MIND THE DOORS" ( on the word "doors" most of the train's windows implode ) "WHEN YER READY DRIVER".......................He then does his pull the chain, flush that loo routine..................A living legend................
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 10:01:35 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 10:01:35 GMT
Hmm, the Boomtown SAT! He's a real character, one to watch on the in-cab monitor. If you can see him when its heaving... Consistency would be nice... however, I can't see this happening. There have been a couple of times where the bat has literally been waved at me for like a millisecond, or its been waved at me when I have a red. Oh well....
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 11:17:48 GMT
Post by auxsetreq on Feb 13, 2011 11:17:48 GMT
I'd love to give him a makeover. A far too tight cardy n strides, winkle pickers and a silly little far-to-small pink plaid trilby worn at a rakish angle. Choreograph a chicken-dancing-on-a-hotplate routine and I swear, we'd have our very own *brilliant* Olly Murrs. For that, I'd forgive him him a raised bat against a red stick any day.................
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 12:07:50 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 12:07:50 GMT
Bat is withdrawn after first car has left the station, thats standard across the combine, unless there is a CCTV issue at fault, and its an in cab CCTV line, bat should only be withdrawn, once the whole train has left the platform. Why are you required to hold the bat up once we’ve started moving? Obviously if it’s just one camera gone I can see the logic but normally if it goes it’s the whole set. Unless you are level with the front cab once we’ve closed the doors and sat down we can’t see you so there would be no way we could see you once we set off down the tunnel. In future I suspect SATS will be withdrawn and we’ll go back to how it was before they were introduced, 2002 I think it was, with station staff only sent down for assisted dispatch or only on platforms which suffer from serious congestion in the peaks. Raised bats when we are on a red is because nobody tells them that the dot matrix board will only start flashing “mind the doors” if the signal is clear and we have ten seconds or less on the countdown. Hardly surprising they don't know as I've had Supers do this for last trains while I'm on a red, if they don't know how can they pass it onto the CSAs? As for “Pumpy” at Holborn his announcements just keep getting longer and longer.
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 12:43:26 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 12:43:26 GMT
To answer the original question. There is a department within London Underground called "S&SD" or strategy and service development. I was told recently that this department alone employs around a thousand people in it's various disguises. For those who were around in the late 90's - around company plan - the same department had just a handful of people. Anyway S&SD have been tasked to introduce the OSP (Operational Strategic Plan) - explained a little HERE. Anyway basically the OSP "team" produces what is called a BNS - or business needs schematic. This is a nice colourful bar chart in which S&SD have given certain criteria that is needed for the business needs. The BNS is based on raw data i.e. number of people entering/ exiting the station, frequency of trains, number of tickets sold etc etc. There is no input into the BNS for local conditions, i.e. large number of platforms, staggered gatelines, lifts etc etc. So with SATS the timings and location are based soley on the number of trains and the customer numbers provided by the raw data. (There is no allowance for the type of nature of the platform) The raw data is then compared to the business needs as dictated by S&SD and you then either have a SATS duty or not. An example of the BNS, S&SD and SATS Great Portland Street has gained a 90 min SATS duty on the Westbound platform during the PM peak - although for local reasons it's not being done at present. However Baker Street has lost it's SATS duties on the Met and H&C platforms. The reason being that GPS have a higher volume of trains leaving from the one platform while Baker Streets (North/ Westbound) departures are spread over 4 platforms and thus no single platform triggers the target set by S&SD.
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Tom
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 14:54:07 GMT
Post by Tom on Feb 13, 2011 14:54:07 GMT
To answer the original question. There is a department within London Underground called "S&SD" or strategy and service development. Get with the times SS Stig - they've been renamed Strategy and Commercial (S&C) now.
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 14:56:07 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 14:56:07 GMT
Should read my emails more often ;D
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 15:01:04 GMT
Post by suncloud on Feb 13, 2011 15:01:04 GMT
And presumably as an SS or GSM you have ended up with no input in when and where your staff are stationed either in planning stages or 'on the day'... despite (one imagines) being the experts on what happens on the ground at your station/in your group...
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Deleted
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SATS?
Feb 13, 2011 17:14:04 GMT
Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2011 17:14:04 GMT
And presumably as an SS or GSM you have ended up with no input in when and where your staff are stationed either in planning stages or 'on the day'... despite (one imagines) being the experts on what happens on the ground at your station/in your group... Input from the people who actually work there on a daily basis and see the need first hand? What madness is this? Your words confuse and frighten us, obviously you are stranger to the world of The Tube People. These edicts are passed down to us from on high by our dark overlords, people who wear nice suits and spend long hours between 9-5 (3pm on a Friday) sat discussing what needs to be done around a shiny conference table laden with coffee and biscuits. It is rumoured that some of them even know what a train is but we’ve never seen any evidence to support this myth.
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