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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 20:45:06 GMT
Now then, on my simulator, I cannae (bit of Scottish for you all there) Stop at the two arrows indicating where the drivers cab should be.
Now I didn't put this in railway simulations because I want to know the 'real' maths to it and how a real train reacts.
So you Tube drivers, when you see that platform and P.O'ed red faced business people coming towards you when exactly do you slam on those brakes?
I tend to use my emergency brake as I have really slow reactions and I have to reverse fowards and backwards just so the doors can open.
Tips?
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 20, 2005 21:46:20 GMT
In a simulator, the train will react the same every time (unless you've got a professional install!). Real trains will differ depending on the conditions at the time, ie - gradient, weather, temperature etc. Also, no two trains are the same. While they obviously have set tolerances, one particular train may have better brakes, or accelerate faster. My advice for your simulator is the the same as the real thing - practice makes perfect!!! ;D
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Post by Christopher J on Jun 20, 2005 21:49:21 GMT
So you Tube drivers, when you see that platform and P.O'ed red faced business people coming towards you when exactly do you slam on those brakes? I tend to use my emergency brake as I have really slow reactions and I have to reverse fowards and backwards just so the doors can open. Each operator has his/hers own braking spots, normally a Train Operator would pick out a certain object and use that as his braking point - at this point he should start to apply the Trains brakes knowing that the spot he started to brake out would provide a gentle stop at the station. (But you have to take into account factors such as the weather, for example if it's raining you would brake earlier to ensure you don't slip and go flying past the thing you were aiming to stop at. ) It all depends on who the Train Operator is and how confident he/she is at driving in situations like approaching a station for example, every Operator has his/her own driving techniques which he/she will use to drive the Train with. Some operators would use light acceleration/braking whilst others would tend to be a bit more rougher, same goes for entering stations, an operator might be really confident and hit at a good 40-50mph whilst the next might not be so confident and enter at a slower 25-30mph. (but you have to remember, if you enter at a high speed you have to ensure you CAN stop where you want to in the length you have to stop at it and the speed the Train is moving at) Operators are associated with the route they are driving on (hopefully), seeing a station and using the Emergency Brake to stop at it isn't really a professional driving skill. (Unless you want to throw a few punters about. ;D)
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2005 22:00:09 GMT
I tend to use my emergency brake as I have really slow reactions and I have to reverse fowards and backwards just so the doors can open. In real life, if you overshoot the platform then you certainly don't just put it in reverse and go back! In fact, there is quite a procedure to go through if you have put the train back into the platform.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 20, 2005 22:06:45 GMT
Entering a station at 50 mph? on the MET main maybe!! The highest permitted speed on the District & Piccadilly (and most of the others I would think) is 45mph.
You are quite right, the driving style plays a part and we do use certain 'trigger' points to start braking - but the trains performance will differ between each train - thus every station stop is a new experience - not a standard set piece!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 6:12:11 GMT
Entering a station at 50 mph? on the MET main maybe!! The highest permitted speed on the District & Piccadilly (and most of the others I would think) is 45mph. When I was on the Met main I never hit a platform at 50mph, perhaps 40mph on dry rails. On wet rails or during leaf fall 30 -35mph.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 7:47:28 GMT
I know that this line uses ATO, and not a true statement of this thread, but I still can't get over the speed a 1992 stock train hits stations and stops in time (well most of the time), is it easy to get away with this in Coded Manual?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 11:25:04 GMT
Come to think of it if an operator was driving at around 40 mph, in a D78 Stock approaching a platform and only took it out of parallel at the platform ramp, will they still stop in time for the OPO equipment?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 21, 2005 14:14:54 GMT
I've seen a train come out of parallell at the bridge before one of the east end stations, (can't think which one though) and overshoot the monitors, despite the train op dropping the deadman.
So... no.
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DescendingSadlyguest
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Post by DescendingSadlyguest on Jun 21, 2005 15:03:32 GMT
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked you.
Met Apprentice -- Thanks for that 'object trigger' point thing, but when I find I'm going through the actual underground there really is nothing to stop me and tell me to stop, yeah maybe there's the odd one or two signals but they tend to be about 20 meters from the actual station ramp....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 15:17:39 GMT
Thanks guys, I'm glad I asked you. Met Apprentice -- Thanks for that 'object trigger' point thing, but when I find I'm going through the actual underground there really is nothing to stop me and tell me to stop, yeah maybe there's the odd one or two signals but they tend to be about 20 meters from the actual station ramp.... I assume this is for a sim. In real life there is nothing to tell you to stop, you learn from experience and the feel of the train.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 15:20:44 GMT
So I am guessing that when a driver is new to the whole concept, the parking is a bit shabby? or do they take a experienced driver around with them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 15:25:16 GMT
So I am guessing that when a driver is new to the whole concept, the parking is a bit shabby? or do they take a experienced driver around with them? When a driver is new to a line they will have spend about a month with an Instructor Operator learning the line and getting the feel of the trains.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 15:32:20 GMT
As Jim says, road learning is a big part of the training! That was a big shock to me coming from the mainline with all of my braking points (a certain house etc), to deep level tube (on the Jubilee) where there are no houses etc! However after a while, you get to learn where you are and where you should brake simply by the twists and turns of the tunnels, the signals, even bumpy track or auto-greasers etc!
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Post by setttt on Jun 21, 2005 16:01:00 GMT
I heard a story today about a Picc driver who kept overrunning stations and was on his final warning. "What did he do?" I hear you ask. I'll tell you what he did! He hit Wood Green too fast, threw the selector into reverse, and... ...Burnt out all four motor cars! At least he had fireworks to celebrate his final day at work .
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Post by Admin Team on Jun 21, 2005 18:52:08 GMT
I heard a story today about a Picc driver who kept overrunning stations and was on his final warning. "What did he do?" I hear you ask. I'll tell you what he did! He hit Wood Green too fast, threw the selector into reverse, and... ...Burnt out all four motor cars! At least he had fireworks to celebrate his final day at work . The 'old lags' will tell drivers new to a line/stock all sorts of stunts to try in such circumstances. My words to all trainees is 'if you haven't heard it from me or another Instructor, then it's not official, and that there's probably good reasons not to do it, so if you do, be it on your own head.' Shortcuts lead to accidents, accidents lead to a coroners court...........
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Post by Dmitri on Jun 21, 2005 19:07:06 GMT
He hit Wood Green too fast, threw the selector into reverse Actually it can be used as a last resort brake - just before the TIF brakes engage .
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 21, 2005 22:31:31 GMT
Or failing that, the RLF brake - which really is THE last resort!!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2005 23:01:23 GMT
an operator might be really confident and hit at a good 40-50mph whilst the next might not be so confident and enter at a slower 25-30mph. If an 'operator' as you call them, hit the platform edge at 50mph, there is quite a high chance that they would go sailing out the other end. As a rule of thumb, if you dont hit the platform more than 35mph, there is plenty of time / space to play about with, rather than stopping on the mark or just after with a full brake application, just because you hit the platform fast. So, 30mph ish at the platform edge, service 3 brake, leve it, then release the brake as required, so that you stop smoothly in service 1. If you really want to be a perfectionist, you can release the brake fully when you are doing about 2/3 mph, as what is left in the system will stop the train, however the train will then stop very smoothly. Of course go back to a braking position once the train has stopped. The highest permitted speed on the District & Piccadilly (and most of the others I would think) is 45mph. The highest speed limit is on the met, which is 50mph, however you still woudlnt hit the platform at that speed! Or failing that, the RLF brake - which really is THE last resort!! No, the LAST resort is the T I F brake!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Jun 21, 2005 23:50:30 GMT
On reflection, you are quite right MA, the TIF is the penultimate.
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