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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 14:27:11 GMT
Hello everyone, I'm a long-time lurker here, and I find this forum very interesting and informative, but I've only just got around to signing up. I was wondering whether anyone could answer my question... At Brondesbury (and some other stations too) there's some very peculiar yellow linage going on. It appears that it's somehow safer to stand closer to the track on the eastbound platform if you're towards the western end of the platform, on the nice new concrete part, but not if you're standing on the old wooden bit of the platform. What's even more strange is that before the platform extension, there was no yellow line at all. The whole variable yellow line was actually installed at around about the same time (so it's not like they were just joining up the old one to a new one). And on the westbound platform, there are still no yellow lines at all, either on the old bit or the new extension, so you can stand as close as you like! This has been the case ever since the extensions were finished. Could anyone shed any light on the logic behind this? See:  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 2, 2011 15:48:42 GMT
Could anyone shed any light on the logic behind this? cowboy job? ;D But probably because the extensions (certainly at Finchley Road & Frognal) are a bit narrower, maybe they need to move the yellow line to get a bit more waiting space on the platform. |
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 2, 2011 18:20:42 GMT
On the RMweb forum recently there was a discussion on loading container trains and the conversation came round to the suction effect of such trains at speed through a station. Apparently an experiment was carried out with a baby buggy placed on a platform, well inside the yellow line, and with the brakes full on. When they ran a container train through the station at normal speed the buggy was sucked into the train!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 3, 2011 10:33:50 GMT
Well, the platform extensions are the same depth as the existing platforms at Brondesbury, West Hampstead and Finchley Rd & Frognal, but all of these stations have the same 'variable' yellow line happening. They even have a little bit of perpendicular yellow line, just to join the two bits up. Now that I've come to think about this, I'm noticing other stations too: Highbury & Islington, for example, has yellow lines behind the tactile strip on all platforms. But both Canonbury and Caledonian Road, on the other hand, have no yellow lines at all on their equally-new platforms. And Dalston Kingsland has a yellow line behind the tactile strip on one platform, but in front of it on the other. I know it shouldn't annoy me, but I felt sure there must be some kind of logic to it all...  |
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Post by andypurk on Feb 3, 2011 11:03:02 GMT
Well, the platform extensions are the same depth as the existing platforms at Brondesbury, West Hampstead and Finchley Rd & Frognal, but all of these stations have the same 'variable' yellow line happening. They even have a little bit of perpendicular yellow line, just to join the two bits up. Now that I've come to think about this, I'm noticing other stations too: Highbury & Islington, for example, has yellow lines behind the tactile strip on all platforms. But both Canonbury and Caledonian Road, on the other hand, have no yellow lines at all on their equally-new platforms. And Dalston Kingsland has a yellow line behind the tactile strip on one platform, but in front of it on the other. I know it shouldn't annoy me, but I felt sure there must be some kind of logic to it all... At some locations, the tactile strip is yellow (you can see this in your image) and there didn't used to be a separate yellow line, with the tactile strip seeming to be all that was necessary. Obviously something changed and it was no longer thought that a yellow tactile strip was sufficient. |
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Post by phillw48 on Feb 3, 2011 11:34:59 GMT
Probably some one tinkering with the regulations or interpreting them differently.
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Post by suncloud on Feb 3, 2011 12:39:55 GMT
Linespeeds and presence/absence of 'through' services could explain differences in the distance between the yellow line and platform edge when looking at different stations, or different platforms at the same station... but surely not on one platform?!?!
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Post by causton on Feb 3, 2011 15:40:39 GMT
Could have been an "I've started painting it on this side (from the end of the platform) so I'll keep on going" then get to the middle and realise they painted it on the wrong side!
(...as you can see, the tactile surface is in the "allowed" area in the middle bit, but in the "prohibited" area at the end. This could lead to a lot of confusion!)
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Post by flippyff on Feb 3, 2011 22:40:23 GMT
Well, the platform extensions are the same depth as the existing platforms at Brondesbury, West Hampstead and Finchley Rd & Frognal, but all of these stations have the same 'variable' yellow line happening. They even have a little bit of perpendicular yellow line, just to join the two bits up. Now that I've come to think about this, I'm noticing other stations too: Highbury & Islington, for example, has yellow lines behind the tactile strip on all platforms. But both Canonbury and Caledonian Road, on the other hand, have no yellow lines at all on their equally-new platforms. And Dalston Kingsland has a yellow line behind the tactile strip on one platform, but in front of it on the other. I know it shouldn't annoy me, but I felt sure there must be some kind of logic to it all... If you stand with a foot either side of the perpendicular line do the Megaphone-wielding-platform-police explode in a puff of logic?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 10:34:06 GMT
If you stand with a foot either side of the perpendicular line do the Megaphone-wielding-platform-police explode in a puff of logic? Ha! ;D That would be great! Anyone ever tried having a philsophical debate about what really consitutes "behind" with someone holding a megaphone? Fortunately, there are no megaphones at Brondesbury. There are, however, signs on the westbound platform asking you to stand behind the yellow line, despite there being no yellow line (as far as I can tell) on that platform at all. |
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Post by oe on Feb 4, 2011 11:13:44 GMT
Any Cricketers out there should know the no ball law: Part of the front foot whether grounded or raised shall be behind the line.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 11:29:50 GMT
Platform yellow lines are not mandatory on the NR network unless passenger trains pass the platform at speeds greater than 100mph.
However if freight trains pass the platforms at speeds greater than 60mph a risk assessment must be undertaken to reduce the risk to vulnerable passengers and those with lightweight objects such as pushchairs. One would also presume that a risk assessment is carried out if an incident or accident has occurred.
Where yellow lines are used the standard is for them to be standing at least 1500mm away from the platform edge BUT this can be reduced if the 1500mm rule is likely to create congestion/ overcrowding.
So purely as a guess somebodies done a risk assessment and decided the platforms needs yellow lines either to comply with NR standards or to reduce risk, but have then further assessed that a part of the platform is congested enough not to warrant the 1500mm rule and have introduced a smaller distance but only for part of the platform.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 12:30:10 GMT
Platform yellow lines are not mandatory on the NR network unless passenger trains pass the platform at speeds greater than 100mph. However if freight trains pass the platforms at speeds greater than 60mph a risk assessment must be undertaken to reduce the risk to vulnerable passengers and those with lightweight objects such as pushchairs. One would also presume that a risk assessment is carried out if an incident or accident has occurred. Where yellow lines are used the standard is for them to be standing at least 1500mm away from the platform edge BUT this can be reduced if the 1500mm rule is likely to create congestion/ overcrowding. So purely as a guess somebodies done a risk assessment and decided the platforms needs yellow lines either to comply with NR standards or to reduce risk, but have then further assessed that a part of the platform is congested enough not to warrant the 1500mm rule and have introduced a smaller distance but only for part of the platform. Thanks Stig, this is interesting and feels like its getting close to the real answer. Perhaps westbound freight passes Brondesbury at slower speeds than eastbound, which would explain why there's no yellow line on the westbound platform (although not the presence of the signs!) However, at Brondesbury and I think at all the other places I've seen the 'variable' yellow lines so far, the greater standing space is allowed at the part of the platform furthest from the entrance - i.e. the quietest bit. The more crowded section of the platforms are the more constricted parts. |
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Post by edwardfox on Feb 4, 2011 12:42:39 GMT
Can't recall the location(s), but I have seen instances of the yellow line being almost exactly halfway along the width of an already narrow-ish platform.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 4, 2011 15:34:19 GMT
'Grandfather rights' ?
The platform extensions have to be lined to the current regulations (1.5m ^) but when the main part of the platform was lined I suspect that the regulations were less onerous.
If you were building it all from new it would be 1.5m all the way.
As an aside I am always amused by the announcement at Shepherds Bush Central line station.
'Please stand behind the yellow line at all times' or words to that effect which if you follow slavishly means you can never get on the train.
Andy
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