S stock delivery & introduction - discussion

Irony being the A stock was hated just as much as the S stock is when it was introduced.

One of the pre-production trains was being used as an S8-1, but it has now gone back to Derby. The S8-1s in London at the moment are 21045 and 21059.

"Tim O'Toole" (21100-21099) went back to Derby in June last year.

The one that went back over the weekend of 14/15 January was 21002-21001, one of the Pre-Production trains, but this was 7-car (or S8 -1 whichever way wou want to look at it!!).

21099 'Tim O'Toole CBE' is a pre-production unit, so hasn't ever run in service. Both pre-production trains are now at Derby, the other (21001) has gone back twice as it returned to London as a S8-1 for a while, but recently went back again.

That is also what I meant. I was assuming that as 21045 and 21059 are production S8s, they would have seats fitted. If that's not the case (although as 21001 was also used I'm not sure why any test equipment would need to be fitted in the production ones that would require seats to be removed), then it should be possible to temporarily run two or three other S8s on the H&C. There should be enough spare units as the A stock (a slightly smaller fleet by then) used to operate the ELL as well. Does anybody know if 21045 and 059 have proper interiors fitted?
Would the M2 car have to be removed before delivery, or can it be done at a depot? I've seen a photo of a pre-production S stock uncoupled inside Neasden depot, but the S8-1s arrived as 7-car, and all cars of unit 21001 was taken back to Derby before it returned, not just car 23001.

Perhaps only a couple of days.

If it snows heavily will this affect S stock delivery and A stock disposal? I'd love to see those lorries get up the slope at Northwood?! ;D

Too right!

Not sure...

I went to Princes Risborough this evening, but no train came through at the scheduled time... Granted, I only went as I read a post saying it was running... only on checking when I got home did I realise that it was dated Feb 1st.

Any idea on times?

It arrives into Amersham before 1am

The latest issue of RAIL magazine reports that four of the Class 20 locos used to work the S Stock delivery trains have been modified to have "GSM-R cab signalling". I'm not sure I understand this. GSM-R is used for Victoria Line signalling and I don't know of anywhere else in the UK where it is used apart from the trials on the Cambrian line for ETCS.

Can anyone offer an explanation please?

GSM-R is derived from GSM - the 2G mobile phone standard. It can carry voice and data, hence is used for cab radio here already (the ELL uses it). ERTMS also uses GSM-R on certain levels, as a means of communication with the signalling centre. Fortunately, that means there shouldn't be any black spots beat that 3!

Just like GSM, GSM-R uses TDMA based GMSK transmission. It operates on 876-880MHz upstream and 921-925MHz downstream frequencies, basically bang between what will become the LTE frequency band and the current O2 and Vodafone GSM spectrum.

In other words, yes, it's a very close derivative of the same GSM system you'll more than likely find in use on your mobile phone when you leave a 3G area (unless, you're on 3, they have UMTS only)!

The system also offers many more railway-useful features like call prioritisation, group calls, functional numbering, end of call reporting, link assurance..

It's hardly tl;dr!

Although, depending on when (if) the Class 20's are finally withdrawn, it will eventually be used as part of ERTMS.

Regards,

Dan