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Post by ongarparknride on Mar 22, 2007 7:13:02 GMT
Prompted by a reply on another thread, I refer to the small reservoirs with a top roller built into to conductor rail sections. I always wondered a bit about these as it seemed they had quite a small capacity for fluid, and assumed they operated like the stamp/envelope sticking rollers with a second roller underneath. Also over how many feet would they have an effective range? It seems they were manually replenished from tanks at depots. So was this done by a lot of walking each morning before the traction current was turned on? Were they placed to minimise icing at places known for "gapping"? Are they still operational? Superseded by greater reliance on running the sleet locos? I remember a post here about stocks of grease being kept trackside until they started getting stolen too frequently - was deicer similarly kept locally? And finally, I guess in the good old days there were trackside huts..... I don't think I can recollect any in the eastern Central looking more recently erected than the 1920's. Did LT (in all its names) provide any trackside huts for traditional purposes of local storage of tools, supplies etc. - as opposed to where larger works were being carried out over a period? Many thanks for any replies to my curiosity  |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 22, 2007 13:00:54 GMT
The kit you are taking about were called de-ice baths, they were filled up by the local PWay staff.
The are not used any more as the job is done by sleet trains now.
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Post by ongarparknride on Mar 22, 2007 17:15:31 GMT
Thanks DWS. So (relevant) train stock are now equipped with on-board deicers then.
I recollect the big (black on white IIRC) D ON and D OFF signs hung at the ends of platforms.
So I guess on the Central, for example, the 1962 TS were the first to be fitted with integral deicers? I don't recollect seeing reservoir filler caps, but guess these were probably fitted below the visible "skirt" of the train when normally viewed by a passenger at a platform.
If you'll pardon a "supplementary", is it still practice to heat the conductor rails to deice them prior to establishing Traction Current by short circuiting them? I understand this was practice at some time.
My main LU recollections are late 1950's onwards then irregular from 1974-1999 so perhaps a lot of these were removed in scheduled conductor rail relaying then? Thanks to you, and any anyone else, in contributing to my "memory" questions.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2007 17:44:56 GMT
well if they did the circuit breakers wouldnt like that and the do not do it now thats for sure
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 22, 2007 19:02:09 GMT
well if they did the circuit breakers wouldnt like that and the do not do it now thats for sure Certain substations are specially equipped to supply heating current to the conductor rails to prevent ice formation or to clear ice and snow which has already formed. While such heating is being performed trains cannot be operated over the affected section(s). At this time the conductor rails are "alive", but the "current on line" test set may fail to give such an indication. Heating facilities are provided on the following sections: SECTION LINE Chorleywood - Amersham Northbound Croxleyhall - Chorleywood Northbound Croxleyhall - Northwood Southbound Local Harrow-on-the-Hill - Northwood Northbound Local Rayners Lane - Harrow-on-the-Hill Southbound Uxbridge Preston Road- Harrow-on-the Hill Northbound Local Arnos Grove - Cockfosters Eastbound Loughton - Epping Station Eastbound |
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Post by District Dave on Mar 22, 2007 19:34:03 GMT
On a relevant point....
Though the units equipped are called 'deicers' this is, in fact, not correct.
The fluid is laid in anticipation of ice forming - so therefore it's ice prevention. Ice removal (if so required) is still done by the means of qualified staff scraping the traction current rails.
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Post by ongarparknride on Mar 22, 2007 20:27:17 GMT
Whoops, we'd better cool down a bit. :-) Please can I readdress all this?
aetearlscourt: My understanding as an enthusiast is that a practice existed where reduced current was passed through the conductor rails, relying on their inherent resistant to generate heat and thus melt / deice, prior to Operations when the Full traction current was applied at the start of the Working Timetable. I think you agree I'm asking about this in the past rather than current (no pun intended) practice? The reference to: "Appendix 2 to the Rule Book 1982" supports that. Please, no disrespect if this goes back earlier than your personal working experience.
DWS: "The kit you are taking about were called de-ice baths, they were filled up by the local PWay staff." Do such "local PWay staff" still exist? I appreciate this better be up to the time "private contracting" took over for the trackbed maintenance, which itself raises a point as to responsibility for track deicing replenishment. Perhaps the answer is in provision of Stock on-board deicing equipment? Was this Original Equipment to the 1962 stock, or retro-fitted?
Further, providing just: Loughton - Epping Station ***Eastbound***
I guess this is because Loughton provided overnight stabling of trains, many of which would logically be first workings of the day were eastbound to Epping. (Woodford provided the next City-bound stock of trains.)
Er, not sure why they didn't then all freeze up on their first westbound runs back to Loughton and the West End? (Not being "funny" in asking this.) Why no Westbound provision? Anyone please explain?
And DD, please. Are you using present tense implying some such baths are still operational on the network? And begging the follow-up question, can you explain further typical proceedures for "qualified staff scraping the traction current rails"?
Sorry to be a bit defensive (for reasons some here might appreciate) but just asking serious questions for my personal information, and hoping to get replies that will also be of interest to others.
With sleet locos, conductor rail heating by restricted current shorting, the manpower to fill and service the OP "baths", and qualified staff scraping the traction current rails, I'm really intrigued as to broadly how LU or its PPI/PPP partners protects against Cold Weather these days.
Was I correct in my interpretation of the meaning of the "D ON" / "D OFF" boards please?
I don't think the latter were exclusive to the Central.
Cheers,
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Post by District Dave on Mar 22, 2007 21:35:24 GMT
And DD, please. Are you using present tense implying some such baths are still operational on the network? And begging the follow-up question, can you explain further typical proceedures for "qualified staff scraping the traction current rails"? By 'units' I am referring to rolling stock units; you will note that stock formations are formed from units to form a complete set. AFAIK there are no such baths still in use - though I will happily stand corrected by my colleagues from other lines; I speak from my own line's position. The short version as to Ice Scraping is more or less as follows: 1) Traction current is discharged - normal procedures to achieve and confirm this apply. 2) Ice scrapers (similar to garden hoes, but with flanges to keep them located over the traction current rails) are deployed. 3) Following prescribed procedures the rails are scraped. (i.e. the ice is removed) over the appropriate distance to allow the stalled train to regian traction curent and move under normal procedures. 4) Traction current is recharged, procedures apply. 5) The stalled train (hopefully) moves forward as described in (3) above. If I were cynical I would propose that at this point the snow would have taken us back to step (1) and we would start again - but I'm not, so I won't! Your interpretation of 'D' borads is correct. There are unofficial methods of deicing T/C rails of course, but we cannot either condone or expand upon these; I'm sure you will understand. |
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DWS
every second count's
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Post by DWS on Mar 22, 2007 21:37:14 GMT
The heating of Current Rails had been abandoned when the Appendix 2 to the Rule Book was reprinted in 1986.
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Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Mar 22, 2007 22:01:11 GMT
You might be interested to know that years ago at Heathrow they used Urea to de-ice the runways, obtained from Silver Fox fur farms!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 22, 2007 22:10:50 GMT
nice!
they are using Urea in the most recent 'Euro 4' spec buses to aid emission reduction!
so many uses...
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Post by stanmorek on Mar 26, 2007 23:25:41 GMT
I heard that the de-icers were phased out due to lack of man power and that they weren't very efficient.
These days P-way tools are sometimes kept trackside in locked storage boxes or cages. Larger items like iron men and track trolleys are padlocked when left in open areas in case of theft. Other expensive kit like generators are taken back to the depot.
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