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Post by citysig on Jan 11, 2011 19:06:23 GMT
Posters that I have seen displayed today would indicate that the number of planned cancellations has been considerably reduced with effect from this morning. Last week, six am peak services from Watford were shown as terminating at Harrow whereas this week, only one service is described as terminating at Harrow. In addition, at the other end of the line, posters displayed indicated fewer cancelled services from Aldgate/Baker Street during the evening peak this week. This week we have tried to balance the issues we still have with the needs of you the customer. Instead of turfing people off trains, we are now trying to cancel empty trains that start from the depot. The number of cancellations is more or less the same (with I think 1 or 2 slight changes to the location the train is lost for example). As I said, this will be an ever changing scene, and is constantly under review. We have had a good few weekdays now with very few problems. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 19:08:56 GMT
Amersham train nearly 20 minutes late at Chalfont this evening, preceding Chesham train 12 minutes late. 'Good service on the Metropolitan Line' haha Very interesting. I was the controller on duty and we had nothing leave Harrow northbound above 10 late. Are you sure you were on the correct train for the timings you are judging it against? Obviously something could have slipped through the net, but a train running 20 late not being noticed seems pretty unlikely. Any detail you can give would be appreciated. I will look back. I can't remember now, but I do remember arriving at Chalfont and what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. Same today too, the 18:10 Chesham was 12 late. |
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Post by citysig on Jan 11, 2011 19:10:20 GMT
Frustratingly, my usual 07:44 from Amersham is terminating at Harrow. Really annoying as I miss a connection. I can't use the alternative Chiltern services as they don't stop at Finchley Road. So (selfish mode) why cancel an Amersham service and run more Watford services who have more trains to chose from? Unfortunately, we are balancing the needs of everyone. There are less Amersham-bound services to choose from you are right, but there are plenty of alternative services which depart Harrow for the city. Not ideal if you've got to get off and change. From memory (I don't have the sheet in front of me) the train you mention would end up being cancelled on the northbound trip throughout (it re-enters service at Harrow on its northbound trip). Its northbound trip is to Amersham, so by turfing you off, we're preventing an hour-long gap later in the morning. I am sure your fellow Amersham travellers appreciate the pain you're enduring on their behalf ;D Seriously, as I've said this won't be forever, but whilst we've got to make harsh decisions to keep everything else running, we do have to try and strike the best balance for all of our customers. |
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Post by citysig on Jan 11, 2011 19:11:47 GMT
I can't remember now, but I do remember arriving at Chalfont and what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. Rest assured I will be looking back. I was not aware of any train being diverted, therefore at least from a controller point of view I will be making investigations. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 11, 2011 19:21:52 GMT
I can't remember now, but I do remember arriving at Chalfont and what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. Rest assured I will be looking back. I was not aware of any train being diverted, therefore at least from a controller point of view I will be making investigations. It was diverted at the very last minute before I even got on it, it pulled into chalfont and the train didn't get the stick, so I didn't get on and sure enough the driver announced that it was now an Amersham train and he himself had only just been told. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 7:52:28 GMT
0722 train from Chesham cancelled this morning, had to pay the extra to get a bus to Amersham and missed my connection. I can see this being a recurring problem!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 10:21:56 GMT
Posters that I have seen displayed today would indicate that the number of planned cancellations has been considerably reduced with effect from this morning. Last week, six am peak services from Watford were shown as terminating at Harrow whereas this week, only one service is described as terminating at Harrow. In addition, at the other end of the line, posters displayed indicated fewer cancelled services from Aldgate/Baker Street during the evening peak this week. We have had a good few weekdays now with very few problems. Have we? You must be on leave or something as we didn't have a good evening on Friday, and Monday morning wasn't much better! Think you need some more desk time ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 10:29:46 GMT
Very interesting. I was the controller on duty and we had nothing leave Harrow northbound above 10 late. Are you sure you were on the correct train for the timings you are judging it against? Obviously something could have slipped through the net, but a train running 20 late not being noticed seems pretty unlikely. Any detail you can give would be appreciated. I will look back. I can't remember now, but I do remember arriving at Chalfont and what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. Same today too, the 18:10 Chesham was 12 late. Are you sure this wasn't Friday night as a similar thing happened then. We had a Chesham go down 15 late, with a 15 minute turnaround so we expected it back maybe 5 or 6 minutes late. This wasn't a problem as the next Chesham was about 5-8 late and it should all have worked out. However, the train at Chesham came back off the branch 17 late, no reason given by anyone. As a result, my colleague had to divert the next one to Amersham (this was waiting in Chalfont platform with the other train not having even left Chesham) as there was a Chiltern flyer right behind it. Unfortunately there is no slack in this timetable when the Chesham service runs late! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 10:30:47 GMT
0722 train from Chesham cancelled this morning, had to pay the extra to get a bus to Amersham and missed my connection. I can see this being a recurring problem! I'm afraid it already is! |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2011 19:42:56 GMT
I can't remember now, but I do remember arriving at Chalfont and what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. Same today too, the 18:10 Chesham was 12 late. Are you sure this wasn't Friday night as a similar thing happened then. We had a Chesham go down 15 late, with a 15 minute turnaround so we expected it back maybe 5 or 6 minutes late. This wasn't a problem as the next Chesham was about 5-8 late and it should all have worked out. However, the train at Chesham came back off the branch 17 late, no reason given by anyone. As a result, my colleague had to divert the next one to Amersham (this was waiting in Chalfont platform with the other train not having even left Chesham) as there was a Chiltern flyer right behind it. Unfortunately there is no slack in this timetable when the Chesham service runs late! It was friday indeed! |
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Post by citysig on Jan 13, 2011 9:38:22 GMT
Amersham train nearly 20 minutes late at Chalfont this evening, preceding Chesham train 12 minutes late. 'Good service on the Metropolitan Line' haha We'll do our best to run the service, and can help to explain why things happen, but at least get your facts straight to begin with. Your post was written as if it happened on the day you posted - Monday 10th January. You may like to know a few people - including myself - spent a time (in my case my own time) trying to ascertain what had happened. So on Monday evening, we were telling the truth when we said "Good Service." |
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Post by redsetter on Jan 13, 2011 10:49:07 GMT
0722 train from Chesham cancelled this morning, had to pay the extra to get a bus to Amersham and missed my connection. I can see this being a recurring problem! that sounds like a nightmare start to the day. |
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Post by cowmos on Jan 13, 2011 17:08:44 GMT
Long time reader, first time poster!
A friend of mine was at Chesham station waiting for the 0722 yesterday (12th Jan) when the announcement came out. He had to wait a further 30 minutes for another train.
Why can't the announcement give details as to why the train was cancelled?
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metman
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Post by metman on Jan 13, 2011 18:20:45 GMT
The announcer may not know why the train has been cancelled so they don't always say. Better to give no information than the wrong information...
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Post by Bighat on Jan 13, 2011 18:38:32 GMT
Long time reader, first time poster! A friend of mine was at Chesham station waiting for the 0722 yesterday (12th Jan) when the announcement came out. He had to wait a further 30 minutes for another train. Why can't the announcement give details as to why the train was cancelled? Knowing WHY the train has been cancelled will NOT actually change the situation. Why delay the announcement for information that may not be available? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 13, 2011 20:00:45 GMT
Amersham train nearly 20 minutes late at Chalfont this evening, preceding Chesham train 12 minutes late. 'Good service on the Metropolitan Line' haha We'll do our best to run the service, and can help to explain why things happen, but at least get your facts straight to begin with. Your post was written as if it happened on the day you posted - Monday 10th January. You may like to know a few people - including myself - spent a time (in my case my own time) trying to ascertain what had happened. So on Monday evening, we were telling the truth when we said "Good Service." I think you're not understanding me. These were two separate events on two separate days. On Monday the Amersham was train nearly 20 minutes late at Chalfont and the preceding Chesham train was 12 minutes late. On Friday 7th what should have been the 18:10 was diverted to Amersham, and the Chesham after that was ~18 late. I have my facts perfectly straight - these were not the same thing albeit similar. |
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Post by vato on Jan 13, 2011 21:09:06 GMT
A friend of mine was at Chesham station waiting for the 0722 yesterday (12th Jan) when the announcement came out. He had to wait a further 30 minutes for another train. Why can't the announcement give details as to why the train was cancelled? I was there and a full announcement was made explaining the timings and the late running of the previous train. I was miffed at the delay, but the communications were fine. |
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Post by citysig on Jan 14, 2011 10:35:40 GMT
Just to put you all in the picture, from next week a few alterations have been put in place.
For the morning service, the ex-Amersham service will not terminate at Harrow, but will run as booked throught. Also the 0839 Baker Street to Amersham will now run from Baker Street instead of starting at Harrow. The 0743 from Uxbridge will also be re-instated.
For the evening service, 1 Watford and 1 Uxbridge service are re-instated during the evening peak, and one train that was being terminated at Harrow at the tail end of the peak is now being kept in service.
There will still be cancellations, but hopefully they will not cause the huge inconvenience that has been seen over the last couple of weeks.
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Post by cowmos on Jan 14, 2011 12:13:48 GMT
Thanks for the heads up, MetControl!
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2011 13:56:51 GMT
There will still be cancellations, but hopefully they will not cause the huge inconvenience that has been seen over the last couple of weeks. No, it will just be the same old signals that fail every week that will be responsible!! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by den on Jan 18, 2011 10:17:50 GMT
I've never been on a Chesham train, but are they always fast trains? I'm just asking because I was at North Harrow yesterday waiting for a northbound train for 20-25 minutes. During that time 2 fast trains + a chiltern went Northbound. I checked on my iPhone app and one was a Chesham and the other an Amersham. I would have though one of those fast could have run slow to Chesham or is that not possible?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jan 18, 2011 11:15:47 GMT
It is possible but its fair to say that Cheshams only have a very small window of oppertunity to gain access to the branch at the right time without a resulting mess later - or ish.
The last one of the day or something runs slow doesnt it?
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Post by citysig on Jan 18, 2011 12:42:06 GMT
For the majority of the day Chesham services are fast, and using them to cover for local line trains will mean they probably won't be able to make it to Chesham - leaving an hour-long gap up there.
From the 2154 departure from Baker Street each evening, all but the very last Chesham service are all-stations trains.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 21:52:29 GMT
18:10 chesham was 15 late off Chalfont this evening!
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Post by cowmos on Jan 19, 2011 12:30:53 GMT
There seemed to be problems yesterday (18th) evening at around 2030-2130.
The screen at Baker Street showed a Chesham Fast, with an Amersham Fast leaving four minutes later. I bounded onto the Chesham train, only to be thrown off at Chalfont ("Good news for some, bad news for others" the driver said). The train then continued to its amended (Amersham) destination.
About a dozen of us waited at Chalfont for a Chesham train. A couple of minutes later a northbound Chiltern service arrived, stopped, and then continued on its journey.
Shortly after that, we spotted a southbound train leaving the Chesham branch. Obviously the Chesham train we were on had absolutely no chance in getting to Chesham as there was already a train on the line, and I guess it couldn't sit at Chalfont to wait as there a Chiltern service behind it.
We watched the train crawl along and pull into Chalfont. At this point the northbound Amersham service turned up. We were unsure whether this one was going to be transformed into a Chesham service (the driver didn't mention anything over the speaker - usually they say "Change here for Amersham/Chesham", but nothing). One of us plucked up the courage to speak to the driver who then announced that the train will not be diverted to Chesham, and to wait for the next train, which was a few minutes behind.
Five minutes later a Chesham bound train arrived and we made our way at about 2130.
We weren't quite sure what caused our delay - was the southbound Chesham train late? Was it really necessary to have a Fast Chesham and Fast Amersham just a few minutes apart, or were one of these late?
Ho hum.
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Post by causton on Jan 19, 2011 17:25:06 GMT
The TfL timetable shows a 21:01 Baker Street - Chesham train getting to Chalfont at 21:42 and a 21:11 Baker Street - Amersham train getting to Chalfont at 21:52.
From Chalfont the next timetabled is the 21:58 Chiltern service.
Then it's supposed to be 22:12 Chesham service and 22:22 Amersham service... so perhaps that Chesham service was delayed.
(of course this is just the normal timetable, without any amendments/service disruption taken into account!)
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Post by graeme186 on Jan 25, 2011 21:06:07 GMT
When TfL consulted on its proposal to fully integrate the Chesham service with the remainder of the Metropolitan Line service a couple of years back, I did suggest that it might be pertinent for all Chesham services to start from Baker Street during the morning peak rather than Aldgate so as to ensure a greater chance of them arriving at Chalfont & Latimer on or very close to their scheduled time. Such an initiative would not inconvenience too many passengers at this time of the day.
In the current timetable, all departures from Baker Street to Chesham between 0800 and 1000 originate from Aldgate.
It occurs to me that there are options to making some minor amendments to the timetable to enable Chesham trains to start from Baker Street during this time (e.g. swapping the 0929 Bk St to Harrow with the 0912 Aldgate to Chesham and swapping the 0859 Bk St to Watford with the 0838 Aldgate to Chesham and adjusting waiting times at Harrow accordingly).
It may be that the above possibilities have already been considered and ruled out for particular reasons or the initiative is being considered for the next Met timetable change?
Also, an initiative was introduced in WTT307 (28/09/97) whereby the two evening peak through trains from Aldgate to Chesham emanated from Neasden Depot for reliability reasons. This feature existed until the previous timetable WTT328 but is not a feature of the current timetable except for the 1814 off Aldgate. Perhaps it was considered that there are no reliability benefits to be gained?
Please don't think that I'm attempting to be an 'armchair timetabler' as I respect the challenges and difficulties involved.
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Post by citysig on Jan 26, 2011 12:35:30 GMT
Thank you for your suggestions, and they have been noted. As I am part of the panel getting things to work, we may give them serious consideration.
Our main problem (and it's not as much of a problem now as it was) lies within the duty sheets and the new crew depot at Harrow. The sheets were written with the depot being fully up and running with all facilities and walkways available. This is unfortunately not the case.
We are aware of the Cheshams coming from Aldgate. Not ideal, and hopefully in the next timetable they won't be there. I think they were included because historically Chesham had the peak-hour direct trains. Now it is an all-day service, you do end up with the Chesham service being made up out of trains out of the city.
The next (proper) timetable change will be in December, when there will be a full rethink of all services - not just as a result of the problems experienced this time around. I should be seeing what's on the table next week, but forgive me if I don't share too much. A lot could happen between now and when the timetable comes in.
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Post by graeme186 on Jan 26, 2011 15:58:49 GMT
Thank you very much MetControl for your response and for considering my suggestions. I also appeciate that you would not be in a position this far out to share any information about the detail of timetable changes in Dec 11.
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Post by graeme186 on Feb 1, 2011 19:36:55 GMT
Poster up at Watford tonight and no doubt at other stations...as from 31/01/11, services fully restored, i.e. planned cancellations all withdrawn.
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