|
|
Post by alex92ts on Dec 8, 2010 20:39:00 GMT
Some of you may be aware of the problems at Epping with overcrowding.
The car park at Epping is apparently full around 6.30am! I've never been to Epping that early, but its certainly full before the rush hour even ends. Plus, the residential streets around Epping are full with commuters cars. There has been call for a bigger car park to be built. There is no more space, so people have suggested a double-deck car park. The problem with this is that it will probably encourage more people to use the Central.
Other people think that the Epping-Ongar line should be re-opened. I think this will ease overcrowding at Epping, as people from North Weald and Ongar would not need to drive to Epping, but it will probably encourage more people from Essex to drive and get the tube, as Ongar is close to Chelmsford.
Another method that has been talked about in local newspapers is a park and ride, probably being set up around North Weald Airfield, or the Thornwood area. Again, this will encourage more people to use the Tube. There has even been a ridiculous Facebook group where people think the Tube should be extended to Harlow! Unlikely I think.
If you have ever seen the station forecourt at any time during the day, it is often quite chaotic. Buses have recently become very frequent, as more people are travelling from the Harlow and Ongar areas, taxis are always coming and going, as well as people dropping off/picking up. Just before 9.30AM (when the prices become cheaper), there is literally a queue outside the station and up the station approach, and its worse in the holidays. Epping Station is defiantly not designed for the numbers of people who use the station. Its far too small, and so is the forecourt area.
So, does anyone have an idea about what can be done to sort these problems out? I like the idea of the Epping-Ongar reopening, and it might ease overcrowding at Epping, but won't have a significant impact and might encourage more to use the Tube. Most things (which have mostly been discussed in local newspapers) will encourage more people to use the Tube, and seeing as Loughton already has standing passengers in the rush, more passengers should not be encouraged. The Central is running at full capacity according to TfL. As long as prices are considerably cheaper than NXEA, people will drive long distances from the Chelmsford, Brentwood, and Harlow areas in order to get the Tube.
Even if people from long distances stop using the Central for whatever reason, it will still be very busy. Any suggestions?
|
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Dec 8, 2010 20:47:07 GMT
It's only in relatively recent times that Epping has been this busy - putting into xone 6 was no doubt an incentive to use it, and the service has improved (particularly in the off peak) in recent years. As for suggestions to reduce the problems around Epping, that's a tough one. It already has the largest car park on the whole network, and I can't see the locals wanting a multi storey for aesthetic reasons. A park and ride at North Weald is a good idea, but it would mean a serious service on the Epping to Ongar as opposed to a heritage one, although with planning both could be operated. It just makes LU's decision to close the line in 1994 seem so short sighted.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2010 20:55:32 GMT
It's only in relatively recent times that Epping has been this busy - putting into xone 6 was no doubt an incentive to use it, and the service has improved (particularly in the off peak) in recent years. As for suggestions to reduce the problems around Epping, that's a tough one. It already has the largest car park on the whole network, and I can't see the locals wanting a multi storey for aesthetic reasons. A park and ride at North Weald is a good idea, but it would mean a serious service on the Epping to Ongar as opposed to a heritage one, although with planning both could be operated. It just makes LU's decision to close the line in 1994 seem so short sighted. I'm pretty sure Amersham station car park has more parking spaces than Epping! |
|
|
|
Post by superteacher on Dec 8, 2010 21:03:23 GMT
It's only in relatively recent times that Epping has been this busy - putting into xone 6 was no doubt an incentive to use it, and the service has improved (particularly in the off peak) in recent years. As for suggestions to reduce the problems around Epping, that's a tough one. It already has the largest car park on the whole network, and I can't see the locals wanting a multi storey for aesthetic reasons. A park and ride at North Weald is a good idea, but it would mean a serious service on the Epping to Ongar as opposed to a heritage one, although with planning both could be operated. It just makes LU's decision to close the line in 1994 seem so short sighted. I'm pretty sure Amersham station car park has more parking spaces than Epping! Possibly may have changed in recent years, but Epping used to be the record holder, and I assumed it still was! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2010 21:36:05 GMT
Locals have been up in arms about the parking issue for some years. There have been cases where people have had their driveways blocked off by people parking on the side roads. Its literally a mass scrum for space, worse from about 08.20 I'd say until well after 09.30.
An extension to the car park has long been a plan to sort out the problem, however, residents don't want this. There was a similar case at one station on the NR Network, can't remember if it was on the ECML or up the Chiltern somewhere...
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Dec 8, 2010 23:09:37 GMT
Still Epping back into Zone 7 or 8 and discourage people. It's basic economics I suppose. If the demand is high stick the price up!!
There is Chelney......
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2010 23:56:20 GMT
Locals have been up in arms about the parking issue for some years. There have been cases where people have had their driveways blocked off by people parking on the side roads. Its literally a mass scrum for space, worse from about 08.20 I'd say until well after 09.30. An extension to the car park has long been a plan to sort out the problem, however, residents don't want this. There was a similar case at one station on the NR Network, can't remember if it was on the ECML or up the Chiltern somewhere... Would that be Haddenham and Thame Parkway? |
|
Oracle
In memoriam
RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
Posts: 3,234
|
Post by Oracle on Dec 9, 2010 10:26:46 GMT
I passed by Southampton Airport Parkway this morning and the main car park was full at 7.44! They are building a new multi-storey CP as the station has been a victim of its own success. There is also a small CP on the airport side, and CPs in the Airport as well.
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,346
|
Post by Colin on Dec 9, 2010 14:52:13 GMT
Locals have been up in arms about the parking issue for some years. There have been cases where people have had their driveways blocked off by people parking on the side roads. Its literally a mass scrum for space, worse from about 08.20 I'd say until well after 09.30. An extension to the car park has long been a plan to sort out the problem, however, residents don't want this. There was a similar case at one station on the NR Network, can't remember if it was on the ECML or up the Chiltern somewhere... So the residents are fed up with on street parking and don't want their local station car park extended? What do they expect people to do then, pack their cars in their brief cases?!! |
|
|
|
Post by flippyff on Dec 9, 2010 15:19:40 GMT
Locals have been up in arms about the parking issue for some years. There have been cases where people have had their driveways blocked off by people parking on the side roads. Its literally a mass scrum for space, worse from about 08.20 I'd say until well after 09.30. An extension to the car park has long been a plan to sort out the problem, however, residents don't want this. There was a similar case at one station on the NR Network, can't remember if it was on the ECML or up the Chiltern somewhere... So the residents are fed up with on street parking and don't want their local station car park extended? What do they expect people to do then, pack their cars in their brief cases?!! Maybe they'd like someone to provide a reliable and preferably cheap bus service that all those car drivers could use?  Simon |
|
|
|
Post by bassmike on Dec 9, 2010 15:43:24 GMT
this problem is the outcome of the mistake of extending the central over E.R tracks to epping/ongar. the line should have been part of the E R electrification scheme including the hainault loop via newbury park to ilford. The central could have run from stratford either using ER tracks as far as leytonstone( or two dedicated tracks alongside) and then via gants hill tosurface and interchange at newbury park (there is /was enough room at n.p. for reversing facilities.Anyone who has travelled from epping/ ongar to central london on a tube train knows the the distance is too far for comfortable travel on these vehicles.
|
|
|
|
Post by bassmike on Dec 9, 2010 15:48:34 GMT
further to last post (keeping on the origional thread ) the car parking would have been alleviated by having more station car parks at more stations( as suggested -north weald etc;)
|
|
|
|
Post by alex92ts on Dec 9, 2010 16:41:26 GMT
So the residents are fed up with on street parking and don't want their local station car park extended? What do they expect people to do then, pack their cars in their brief cases?!! Maybe they'd like someone to provide a reliable and preferably cheap bus service that all those car drivers could use? Simon Bus services have improved quite significantly in Epping. The main service used to be the 500/501 with a combined 30min frequency from Harlow to Epping (continuing to either Romford or Brentwood). In 2007, SM Coaches introduced service 19 from Epping to Harlow, which improved over the years, and has a combined frequency of 15 mins with service 20 (Ongar-Epping-Harlow). Also, the 500 now only operates between Epping and Harlow with 3 buses an hour, and combined with the hourly 501, means a 15 minute service Epping-Harlow. Basically, there are two different operators, both every 15 mins from Epping to Harlow. Because of the competition between Arriva and SM, prices have gone down significantly. The 500/501 used to be £4 single/£6 return!!!, now you can get between the two towns around the £1.50/£2 mark. And its quite cheap and frequent to North Weald/Ongar aswell. The increase of bus services shows how the demand has increased. It probably has helped with the car park (although no noticable difference). Unfortunatly, many people using Epping are BMW drivers, so I can't see them swapping the car for a bus. Epping is quite a snobby town. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 17:17:58 GMT
this problem is the outcome of the mistake of extending the central over E.R tracks to epping/ongar. the line should have been part of the E R electrification scheme including the hainault loop via newbury park to ilford. The central could have run from stratford either using ER tracks as far as leytonstone( or two dedicated tracks alongside) and then via gants hill tosurface and interchange at newbury park (there is /was enough room at n.p. for reversing facilities.Anyone who has travelled from epping/ ongar to central london on a tube train knows the the distance is too far for comfortable travel on these vehicles. I've done the journey Bank to Epping. Nothing wrong at all with tube stock for it. |
|
|
|
Post by phillw48 on Dec 9, 2010 18:29:28 GMT
Why not use the Bendy buses that are being replaced in central London to provide a feeder service?  ;D |
|
|
|
Post by alex92ts on Dec 9, 2010 20:28:49 GMT
this problem is the outcome of the mistake of extending the central over E.R tracks to epping/ongar. the line should have been part of the E R electrification scheme including the hainault loop via newbury park to ilford. The central could have run from stratford either using ER tracks as far as leytonstone( or two dedicated tracks alongside) and then via gants hill tosurface and interchange at newbury park (there is /was enough room at n.p. for reversing facilities.Anyone who has travelled from epping/ ongar to central london on a tube train knows the the distance is too far for comfortable travel on these vehicles. I've done the journey Bank to Epping. Nothing wrong at all with tube stock for it. Yeah ithe seating is alright...maybe if you did Epping to central London every day it might be a little too much. |
|
|
|
Post by plasmid on Dec 9, 2010 20:47:30 GMT
Is it really running at maximum capacity?
I thought the signalling was designed for 33tph but the Central currently only operates 29/30tph?
Even so...if it was improved to 33tph from 29tph. That's only an extra 2tph on each branch at either end of the line...
Power problems was it? Constant maintenance on the fleet is it? Not enough trains for the service it deserves someone said?
As for Ongar...with the lack of trains being able to provide a service the Central Line is currently built for...where would the extra trains come from?
|
|
|
|
Post by mrjrt on Dec 9, 2010 21:04:43 GMT
Epping to central London is too far on tube stock, much as Watford Junction to Central London was/would be. Where it does make sense is when there are interchanges with express trains. So a service with fast tracks from say Woodford would make sense, but then you're forcing an interchange of large number of passengers, so you then wonder if terminating it at Woodford and running the express service to Epping might make more sense.
As said elsewhere reducing demand would be easy by putting the stations in the zones they belong in, mileage-wise.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 21:40:04 GMT
Epping to central London is too far on tube stock, much as Watford Junction to Central London was/would be. Where it does make sense is when there are interchanges with express trains. So a service with fast tracks from say Woodford would make sense, but then you're forcing an interchange of large number of passengers, so you then wonder if terminating it at Woodford and running the express service to Epping might make more sense. As said elsewhere reducing demand would be easy by putting the stations in the zones they belong in, mileage-wise. Doing such would defeat the object of taking a train in. It would encourage people to drive to London, which is not the aim these days. It would also inconvenience people a great deal. I maintain my position that it is not too far for tube stock. Epping to West Ruilsip is to the tune of 34 miles or around that point - not very far! I have been through every station of the Central Line. I have been to Watford, on the first S stock passenger journey, and I've done a lot of the Vic on 09s. Not once have I felt the need to complain about the ride, or journey time. Even on the supposed 'hard' seats, which are not at all hard compared to the tip-ups on 95s. There is no space for express tracks up the far north (east side) end of the Central - apart from when you get past Loughton, where it is pointless anyway. Before that, houses are very close to the line, and would not benefit the locals in any way by demolishing said houses! |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2010 22:02:12 GMT
Would Liverpool Street and the lines between there and Ilford even have enough capacity for the trains from the branches that became the Central? Lack of capacity at the central city terminals seems like a standard reason to convert suburban branch lines to Tube branches.
|
|
|
|
Post by phillw48 on Dec 9, 2010 22:21:14 GMT
Would Liverpool Street and the lines between there and Ilford even have enough capacity for the trains from the branches that became the Central? Lack of capacity at the central city terminals seems like a standard reason to convert suburban branch lines to Tube branches. Beeching would have probably closed them anyway. |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 9, 2010 22:30:35 GMT
As long as prices are considerably cheaper than NXEA, people will drive long distances from the Chelmsford, Brentwood, and Harlow areas in order to get the Tube. There's the answer surely - Harlow etc should be in the same Zone as Epping. One of the attractions of Epping is getting to the West End without changing - thus Crossrail might attract some of the Brentwood passengers away but not Harlow and Chelmsford. |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 9, 2010 22:35:07 GMT
Would Liverpool Street and the lines between there and Ilford even have enough capacity for the trains from the branches that became the Central? Lack of capacity at the central city terminals seems like a standard reason to convert suburban branch lines to Tube branches. Beeching would have probably closed them anyway. Beeching closed very few branches in London (Ally Pally was long gone before his time). The steam-operated "Jazz" service coped with all the branches, under electrification it should have been easier. |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Dec 9, 2010 22:38:46 GMT
Then it is simple, build a car park in Epping or the residents will have to lump it! I don't think it is too long a journey on tube stock either having done the journey myself. I don't think the rolling stock is the problem. Until the Central is requipped, nothing is going to change. Extending to Ongar won't help much as the same people will just get on earlier. Where will they park?
|
|
|
|
Post by phillw48 on Dec 9, 2010 22:49:41 GMT
Beeching would have probably closed them anyway. Beeching closed very few branches in London (Ally Pally was long gone before his time). The steam-operated "Jazz" service coped with all the branches, under electrification it should have been easier. Would he have left anything beyond Loughton? I doubt it, certainly the line beyond Epping to Ongar would have been closed a quarter of a century sooner than it was. |
|
mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
Big Hair Day
Posts: 5,922
|
Post by mrfs42 on Dec 9, 2010 23:06:29 GMT
Beeching closed very few branches in London (Ally Pally was long gone before his time). The steam-operated "Jazz" service coped with all the branches, under electrification it should have been easier. Would he have left anything beyond Loughton? I doubt it, certainly the line beyond Epping to Ongar would have been closed a quarter of a century sooner than it was. After all the Hainault line closed whilst Beeching was still in nappies! |
|
|
|
Post by bassmike on Dec 10, 2010 0:36:13 GMT
re capacity at liverpool st why not (at the time) stratford- hackney-eastern junc;-broad st:? Cost would have been reasonable as these lines were all usable then.Would have made much better use of broad st: for very little expense.
|
|
|
|
Post by alex92ts on Dec 10, 2010 15:29:30 GMT
re capacity at liverpool st why not (at the time) stratford- hackney-eastern junc;-broad st:? Cost would have been reasonable as these lines were all usable then.Would have made much better use of broad st: for very little expense. Agreed! Would attract many passengers now (although would still probably be faster to go to Liverpool Street). Stratford wasn't as busy now as it was then though (I think). Also, even if it was successful from Stratford to Broad Street, there would still be a lot of empty space at Broad Street, unless they downsized it (similar to when only one platform was left before it closed). But i'm definatly glad the Broad Street-Dalston Jct section has been reused for the London Overground. Amongst recent transport developments, the East London Line has to be one of my favourites. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2010 18:13:38 GMT
Would that be Haddenham and Thame Parkway? Might well of been. Or it could have been Harlington on the ECML. So the residents are fed up with on street parking and don't want their local station car park extended? What do they expect people to do then, pack their cars in their brief cases?!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D If they could, I bet they would... Mind you, they could always put a folding bike in the boot, park in a non-argumentative area, cycle to the station, fold up bike, onto train, cycle to office! Done! If Epping to Zone 1 is 'too far'....... Why are so many people using Epping as a 'hub' for their commute? I think, an argument at the time the Ongar line closed, was that it would require 7 or 9 extra trains to enable and kind of decent commuter service to be operated, and the revenue received against operational costs wasn't worth the outlay then! £2m per 8 car train the 92ts originally cost!  Narrow minded it might have seemed now 16 years after it closed a feeder/park and ride service using North Weald Aerodrome would have proved useful; new housing in the area being built would have added greatly. I think some of the housing is actually on the site of the aerodrome... Whatever happens, the locals are going to have to accept traffic chaos around the station each morning, or lump it and have a bigger car park! |
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 10, 2010 23:03:12 GMT
re capacity at liverpool st why not (at the time) stratford- hackney-eastern junc;-broad st:? would still probably be faster to go to Liverpool Street Certainly would - most people would simply change at Stratford rather than take the long and winding route via Dalston so it wouldn't reduce crowding on the Stratford-LSt direct route. A spur connecting Hackney Downs to the NLR (close to the Graham Road spur, but north - to- west rather than south-to-west), might have been useful though. |
|
;D
