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Post by d7666 on Dec 2, 2010 22:38:29 GMT
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Ben
fotopic... whats that?
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Post by Ben on Dec 3, 2010 2:10:08 GMT
A 12 carriage train will presumably be 240m, each carriage being ~20m?
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Post by d7666 on Dec 3, 2010 18:37:31 GMT
A 12 carriage train will presumably be 240m, each carriage being ~20m? Errr yes correct arithmetic ... ... but they ain't asking for 240 m trains (at this stage) , they are asking for 200 m (and 160 m in the early stages) nominal length trains. While this does suggest 10car of 20 m stock there is no reason why something like 9car if 23 m bodies depending on how flexible ''nominal'' is. Even then, they are not asking for trains by number of cars, just like Thameslink, they are asking for trains by train length. There is no reason why a ''main line'' load gauge AC version of the Movia (S-stock) body could not be offered, ~17.5 m end cars, ~15.5 m inner cars, you'd get a 12 car ~200 m train or even ~15car when [if] they go to ~240 m. I can't see why any maker would offer such a solution of more cars than necessary but its not a blocking point if the job comes out cheaper. It has been suggested on another forum where I asked the same question that Maryland might be the 160 m limiting station because of expensive civil engineering work to extend platforms. Maryland had been down for SDO in Crossrail. -- Nick |
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Post by norbitonflyer on Dec 4, 2010 14:22:17 GMT
The requirement for that mixture of train lengths puts some design constraints on the rolling stock as two different types of unit will be needed. For example if cars are each 20m long you could operate 4+4car and 4+4+2car, or as 5+5 and 4+4. Either way you lose flexibility as you need to run two types of unit.
(You could run 2+2+2+2(+2), but that means an awful lot of redundant driving cabs, autocouplers etc.
22m cars means 9-car trains for the full 200m, or seven-car for the 160m stations. Again, not easy to achieve both train lengths with one standard unit.
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Post by andypurk on Dec 4, 2010 18:22:50 GMT
The requirement for that mixture of train lengths puts some design constraints on the rolling stock as two different types of unit will be needed. For example if cars are each 20m long you could operate 4+4car and 4+4+2car, or as 5+5 and 4+4. Either way you lose flexibility as you need to run two types of unit. (You could run 2+2+2+2(+2), but that means an awful lot of redundant driving cabs, autocouplers etc. 22m cars means 9-car trains for the full 200m, or seven-car for the 160m stations. Again, not easy to achieve both train lengths with one standard unit. Alternatively you just have a mixture of 8 car and 10 car (20m) units, with cabs only at the outer ends, maybe with the possibility of splitting into halves at a depot (similar to the S-Stock). |
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Dec 4, 2010 19:10:41 GMT
If the 160m trains are only needed during the testing/commissioning phase, you could take an approach similar to the LO 378s and build 8-car trains at first and insert another 2 cars into each set at a later date.
Or you could take a loco+coaches+(loco/DVT) approach, but I don't think that is likely given the short stretches between stations in central London.
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Post by d7666 on Dec 4, 2010 21:15:48 GMT
If the 160m trains are only needed during the testing/commissioning phase, you could take an approach similar to the LO 378s and build 8-car trains at first and insert another 2 cars into each set at a later date. Thats how I read it for now, some initial short trains will be lengthened to the full by adding cars. The reasons for 378 3->4car were pretty clearly related to platform works being completed after the start of train delivery. My question really is I suppose what is the work on Crossrail that won't allow all 200 m operation after opening ? Maryland ? Liverpool St main line terminal - AIUI since asking the question, some Crossrail trains are to be deployed on certain GE peaks trains into Liverpool St. -- Nick |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 4, 2010 23:16:22 GMT
Weren't there rumours that CrossRail may initially open with partial service (with some branches opening later). Perhaps this for initial stage when there will be less passengers?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2010 3:35:34 GMT
If the 160m trains are only needed during the testing/commissioning phase, you could take an approach similar to the LO 378s and build 8-car trains at first and insert another 2 cars into each set at a later date. Thats how I read it for now, some initial short trains will be lengthened to the full by adding cars. The reasons for 378 3->4car were pretty clearly related to platform works being completed after the start of train delivery. My question really is I suppose what is the work on Crossrail that won't allow all 200 m operation after opening ? Maryland ? Liverpool St main line terminal - AIUI since asking the question, some Crossrail trains are to be deployed on certain GE peaks trains into Liverpool St. -- Nick Wasn't the TOC for Crossrail meant to begin in about 2015, by first of all beginning by taking over the existing services. Maybe the plan is to start displacing the existing stock on the GE Metros with the new stock prior to the opening of the core section. |
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Post by d7666 on Dec 7, 2010 22:13:28 GMT
Researchers prompted by the same question on another forum came up with this : www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/pi/crossrail/fundingandgovernance/sponsorrequirements.pdfSection 3.1.6.5 is a table showing the order of service introduction (with dates redacted): A - Progressive introduction of new Crossrail rolling stock on existing suburban services into Liverpool Street by substitution B - On-Network Works between Stratford and Shenfield inclusive Substantially Complete with all relevant Crossrail Services running into Liverpool Street (high level) C - On-Network Works between Heathrow and Westbourne Park inclusive Substantially Complete with Crossrail Services running at a frequency of 4 trains per hour into Paddington (high level) D - Crossrail Services running from Paddington (low level) to Custom House/Abbey Wood allowing a nominal 3 months for Trial Operations on that Part E - Through running of Crossrail Services from Paddington (low level) to Shenfield and to Custom House/Abbey Wood F - Full Crossrail Service from Maidenhead and Heathrow through the Central Section to Shenfield and Custom House/Abbey Wood If this is still the plan 160m trains will be required for use between Liverpool Street and Shenfield until phase E. Got there in the end. Apologies answering own question. -- Nick |
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