Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 11:56:28 GMT
At 11:53 (2 mins ago) a single ended 4 car A stock passed Harrow platform 1 heading northbound. What was it doing here?
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Nov 17, 2010 12:20:08 GMT
Probably on a turning trip to Rickmansworth. Was the red end leading or the white end? It'll probably be back later, or coupled to another 4 cars. What unit was it?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 12:28:48 GMT
Didn't see the unit number. White end leading, I'm now at chalfont and there was no sign of it on the way up the line. I believe it's at amersham.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 12:32:38 GMT
'twas 5198 - just went south through chalfont. I recorded it, I'll post it when I get home.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadmans on Nov 17, 2010 13:30:50 GMT
Test run.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 13:51:21 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by ruislip on Nov 17, 2010 14:36:59 GMT
Could have been on its way to Chesham to operate the "Shuttle".
|
|
cso
Posts: 1,043 
|
Post by cso on Nov 17, 2010 14:37:26 GMT
Testing what, exactly (in as much detail as you can give, obviously!) :-) |
|
neilw
now that's what I call a garden railway
Posts: 284
|
Post by neilw on Nov 17, 2010 14:47:25 GMT
sounds to have some serious flats at front and back?!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 14:58:50 GMT
Could have been on its way to Chesham to operate the "Shuttle". I don't think so; it should only be double-ended [1] A stocks doing the Shuttle. [1] All A stock units have a cab at each end, but many are effectively single-ended due to lacking the extra equipment installed in the 1990s. Those ends that do not have all the new frills are painted white/blue. Only red ends may operate in service. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2010 22:44:33 GMT
I thought the white ends arnt meant to be driven from that end outside of the depot because the cabs dont have a built in radio?
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Nov 17, 2010 23:06:36 GMT
The driver uses a portable radio.
The middle cabs don't have the required OPO equiment in, eg there are not door controls!
|
|
rincew1nd
Administrator
Junior Under-wizzard of quiz
Posts: 10,286
|
Post by rincew1nd on Nov 17, 2010 23:11:09 GMT
I thought the white ends aren't meant to be driven from that end outside of the depot because the cabs dont have a built in radio? I think that this answers: All A stock units have a cab at each end, but many are effectively single-ended due to lacking the extra equipment installed in the 1990s. Those ends that do not have all the new frills are painted white/blue. Only red ends may operate in service. (my bold) Also, in the other place was written with regard to the A stock going east: The unit has already returned; 5069 was leading on the outward trip and 5068 on the return. Single ended units have all the necessary safety systems in both cabs to enable it to operate (empty) on its own on the 'mainline' so as such there is no particular procedure when the unconverted cab is leading. The unconverted cab only lacks equipment and controls associated with carrying passengers (door controls, public address etc). The T/Op would have a hand held Connect radio. So, AIUI, 'White-end-first' is OK outside depots (though not necessarily common) as long as the T/Op has a radio and no passengers. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 12:50:40 GMT
As metman said, only the red ends have OPO equipment, hence my paragraph upthread about red and white/blue ends.
Quite why they didn't cut it down to a half-cab for shunts only, I'll never know... Spare door/seat, hello?
|
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Nov 18, 2010 15:12:35 GMT
I thought the white ends aren't meant to be driven from that end outside of the depot because the cabs dont have a built in radio? I think that this answers:(my bold) Also, in the other place was written with regard to the A stock going east: The unit has already returned; 5069 was leading on the outward trip and 5068 on the return. Single ended units have all the necessary safety systems in both cabs to enable it to operate (empty) on its own on the 'mainline' so as such there is no particular procedure when the unconverted cab is leading. The unconverted cab only lacks equipment and controls associated with carrying passengers (door controls, public address etc). The T/Op would have a hand held Connect radio. So, AIUI, 'White-end-first' is OK outside depots (though not necessarily common) as long as the T/Op has a radio and no passengers. We had this confirmed a few weeks ago when the 4-car A Stock went to Upminster with the white end leading E/B. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Nov 18, 2010 15:22:45 GMT
Looking at Trackernet Replay today, it appeared to be Set 711 from Neasden depot to Amersham and back, but the unit did not turn around via the North Curve.
|
|
|
|
Post by deadmans on Nov 18, 2010 15:32:00 GMT
Looking at Trackernet Replay today, it appeared to be Set 711 from Neasden depot to Amersham and back, but the unit did not turn around via the North Curve. As i said before that is the regular midday test run available to the depot, if required. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 17:42:33 GMT
Thanks for the answer
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Nov 18, 2010 23:14:38 GMT
As metman said, only the red ends have OPO equipment, hence my paragraph upthread about red and white/blue ends. Quite why they didn't cut it down to a half-cab for shunts only, I'll never know... Spare door/seat, hello? Too expensive. The refurbishment nearly got cancelled due to lack of funds. When the OPO conversion was carried out some years earlier I guess funds were not in great nick. It is easier to leave the cabs as they are. There is some safety equipment in the bulkheads that would have to be moved among other things.... |
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,772
|
Post by Chris M on Nov 19, 2010 1:40:45 GMT
Would it be theoretically possible for the doors to be operated by a suitably trained member of staff from the read cab when the white end is leading (i.e. acting as a guard)? I know that operating any of the driving controls would require the white-end cab to be shut down, but does this also apply to the door controls?
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Nov 19, 2010 10:07:47 GMT
Looking at Trackernet Replay today, it appeared to be Set 711 from Neasden depot to Amersham and back, but the unit did not turn around via the North Curve. 711 is not booked to "turn." One of the other available paths (712,713) are used for turning moves. |
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Nov 19, 2010 12:09:11 GMT
What is this movement actually for then?
|
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Nov 20, 2010 10:31:49 GMT
The test runs are used for absolutely anything.
It's a bit like a car going to a garage, and after having a new part fitted, it's taken for a spin to see how the new part is working. Not all repairs require a test run of course, some can be easily tested within the depot.
The turning runs are to turn trains (obviously ;D ). Take a simple scenario. An 8-car train in depot has a defect on one 4-car unit. A replacement 4-car is available, but the "driving end" is facing the wrong way. The unit is sent out (if a driver is available of course) and turned round, using a run to Rickmansworth, then to Watford and then back south to depot.
Test paths are available in the depot, but only ever run as required. There will be days where none of them operate, and days where more than one operates.
|
|
|
|
Post by norbitonflyer on Nov 20, 2010 10:54:39 GMT
Could a single ended unit run in service if the right end is forward?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 11:02:06 GMT
Could a single ended unit run in service if the right end is forward? I highly doubt this, due to the fact that when it has to reverse, the white/blue end will be leading. This cannot be done in service. The train cannot be turned at the termini, only reversed, so the white/blue end will be leading. Verdict: nope. |
|
|
|
Post by 21146 on Nov 20, 2010 14:51:13 GMT
Slightly off-topic, but when the Chesham Shuttle finishes in December not only will that spell the end of short (passenger) train operation on the branch, but also on the main as well, since Train 407 runs in service from Wembley Park to Chesham in the morning. Wonder if anyone will be able to photograph that move before the end?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 14:57:47 GMT
Not off-topic IMHO; it's actually relevant to out discussions of white/blue and red ends...
There won't be any more need for short trains, so the discussion becomes pretty pointless...
Except... Units are always turned on the North Curve/Watford Triangle in pairs, aye? SO there won't be any mismatch, leading to a pair of units, both facing the same end, aye?
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Nov 20, 2010 15:09:21 GMT
No but if you do need to mix things up for repairs or examinations the next four car may be the wrong way round.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 20, 2010 15:19:31 GMT
No but if you do need to mix things up for repairs or examinations the next four car may be the wrong way round. But this does not require a unit to be in service, right? (duh...?And the unit can just be sent, out of service, Neasden > Watford > one of the other branches > Neasden, turning it, aye? |
|
|
|
Post by citysig on Nov 20, 2010 20:56:58 GMT
Could a single ended unit run in service if the right end is forward? I highly doubt this, due to the fact that when it has to reverse, the white/blue end will be leading. This cannot be done in service. The train cannot be turned at the termini, only reversed, so the white/blue end will be leading. Verdict: nope. To take the question at pure face value, the answer is technically yes (no question was made about the return trip being in service as well.) The "red end" will be fully equipped for operation in passenger service. |
|
