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Post by Oracle on Nov 14, 2010 23:32:07 GMT
This cracking shot shows the old connection between the Olympia branch and the WLL (then in the LMR?). I think Kensington South Main box operated the connection from the BR side. gallery62603.fotopic.net/p68090078.html |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 15, 2010 17:19:46 GMT
Great picture. It would have looked good in the Middleton Press book West London Line.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Nov 15, 2010 17:28:35 GMT
This cracking shot shows the old connection between the Olympia branch and the WLL (then in the LMR?). I think Kensington South Main box operated the connection from the BR side. gallery62603.fotopic.net/p68090078.htmlThe connection was worked from a ground frame, with a release from Earls Court control room and Kensington South Main. |
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Oracle
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Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Nov 15, 2010 23:00:19 GMT
I got a reply to my query about its operation from my colleagues in LURS in Underground News MANY years ago!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2010 12:02:07 GMT
I am actually modelling that particular tour! It was a rarity on the southern at that time as the stock was entirely in BR blue-grey including several Mk2 coaches. Swanage and Weymouth were the ultimate destinations. It just has to be modelled purely for the chance that someone will look at it and say 'you can't run that!!!'. Now if anyone can remember the coach numbers.......... I had to ask!  |
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Oracle
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Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Nov 16, 2010 12:21:39 GMT
Was the WLL Mitre Bridge Junction down to just before Clapham Junction in LMR territory then?
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Oracle
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Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Nov 17, 2010 18:48:27 GMT
gallery62603.fotopic.net/p55771293.htmlRe the LT tracks, obviously the left-hand line is from West Ken...but as regards the trailing crossover on the 'WB' Olympia, was there a possible movement in either direction over it to/from Lillie Bridge for service trains? I can't see any signals relating to the crossover. There appears to be a red/white disc signal on the line up from West Ken.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Nov 17, 2010 19:09:03 GMT
What a splendid picture....it raises one question....it seems to have beeen taken from the A4 (Cromwell Road Extension) bridge,by the Whiteley's store.
The caption says it was 1950....does anyone know when the Cromwell Road Extension was built?
The A4 through Hammersmith (flyover) and Chiswick was certainly late 50s/early 60s....
Or am I wrong on the location?
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Oracle
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RIP 2012
Writing is such sweet sorrow: like heck it is!
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Post by Oracle on Nov 17, 2010 19:38:59 GMT
It appears that the location is (as I well know as I first stood on that bridge in the late 1960s) is Cromwell Road. It now runs into West Cromwell Road, which appears to have been built between 1946 and 1952. The bridge was there in 1950 it seems, or its predecessor.
Was the big building next to the LT lines a storage one? I thought it might have been Harrod's or Bentalls.
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slugabed
Zu lang am schnuller.
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Post by slugabed on Nov 17, 2010 20:08:05 GMT
It was Whiteley's....I think it was a furniture depository rather than a warehouse.I think it had "WHITELEYS" picked out in the brickwork until relatively recently,and judging by the differing brickwork,may have suffered a direct hit in the Blitz.
I was first aware of this bridge,sitting on the top deck of a BEA bus from West London Air Terminal to London Airport (as it then was) in Summer 1968.
As we breasted the bridge,I saw the maroon battery locos at Lillie Bridge to our left and asked my mum what those funny trains were....
Did I see a steam loco too? I can't remember...I was only 3.
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 18, 2010 11:14:17 GMT
The siding next to it was known as Whiteley's siding.
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Post by Dstock7080 on Nov 18, 2010 14:23:15 GMT
The siding next to it was known as Whiteley's siding. Indeed, it still is! (shown on the far left of the picture and being occupied by a train of wagons) |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 18, 2010 18:21:07 GMT
gallery62603.fotopic.net/p55771293.htmlRe the LT tracks, obviously the left-hand line is from West Ken...but as regards the trailing crossover on the 'WB' Olympia, was there a possible movement in either direction over it to/from Lillie Bridge for service trains? I can't see any signals relating to the crossover. There appears to be a red/white disc signal on the line up from West Ken. The track next to the siding is from Lillie Bridge yard the other two are from/to Earls Court. The shunt signal in the photo is WB4 now a colour light and numbered WB5a. The cross over was hand worked. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2010 19:15:32 GMT
The track next to the siding is from Lillie Bridge yard the other two are from/to Earls Court. The shunt signal in the photo is WB4 now a colour light and numbered WB5a. The cross over was hand worked. The layout at this time was actually worked from Earl's Court Junction an LNW style of box visible just byond the rear of the train. The two pairs of running lines come together just beyond the box and was the layout until the District bay was provided at Olympia and the lines moved to provide the single line to the bay. |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 19, 2010 8:12:11 GMT
The track next to the siding is from Lillie Bridge yard the other two are from/to Earls Court. The shunt signal in the photo is WB4 now a colour light and numbered WB5a. The cross over was hand worked. The layout at this time was actually worked from Earl's Court Junction an LNW style of box visible just byond the rear of the train. The two pairs of running lines come together just beyond the box and was the layout until the District bay was provided at Olympia and the lines moved to provide the single line to the bay. The area in the photo LT that is was worked from signal cabin WB which was located in Lillie Bridge yard, IMR WB still is although now a different frame and in some what of a state. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 11:13:38 GMT
The area in the photo LT that is was worked from signal cabin WB which was located in Lillie Bridge yard, IMR WB still is although now in some what state. Take a look at this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S50-2h.pdf and you will see that whilst WB had control of some signals and points at that time the area was most definately under the contol of Earls Court Jcn. All WB points are bolt locked and signals are slotted. |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 19, 2010 11:40:51 GMT
The area in the photo LT that is was worked from signal cabin WB which was located in Lillie Bridge yard, IMR WB still is although now in some what state. Take a look at this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S50-2h.pdf and you will see that whilst WB had control of some signals and points at that time the area was most definately under the contol of Earls Court Jcn. All WB points are bolt locked and signals are slotted. All the tracks with current rails came under LT signal cabin WB, the slots etc were due to the connection further along due to access to the bay road being different as we know it at that time. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 12:38:32 GMT
Take a look at this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S50-2h.pdf and you will see that whilst WB had control of some signals and points at that time the area was most definately under the contol of Earls Court Jcn. All WB points are bolt locked and signals are slotted. All the tracks with current rails came under LT signal cabin WB, the slots etc were due to the connection further along due to access to the bay road being different as we know it at that time. There was no bay at this time, the district terminating in the main down platform to reverse and had to pass onto the West London at Earls Court Jcn. This was due to the fact that the District never had a regular service before 1948 as it was the LNW/LMS that had run a service to Mansion House and later Earl's Court. Therefore the requirement to fully slot West Kensington East from Earls Court Jcn. All conductor rails from south of Viaduct Junction to Kensington South Main box were fed from Shepherds Bush GWR sub-station and then from Kensington South Main box they were fed from Earls Court substation. See also this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S51-2h.pdf the SW Bay was only a siding and later upgraded when the seperate running line was provided, 74 signal adjacent to the box was installed for the District service to start from. |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 19, 2010 13:05:39 GMT
All the tracks with current rails came under LT signal cabin WB, the slots etc were due to the connection further along due to access to the bay road being different as we know it at that time. There was no bay at this time, the district terminating in the main down platform to reverse and had to pass onto the West London at Earls Court Jcn. This was due to the fact that the District never had a regular service before 1948 as it was the LNW/LMS that had run a service to Mansion House and later Earl's Court. Therefore the requirement to fully slot West Kensington East from Earls Court Jcn. All conductor rails from south of Viaduct Junction to Kensington South Main box were fed from Shepherds Bush GWR sub-station and then from Kensington South Main box they were fed from Earls Court substation. See also this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S51-2h.pdf the SW Bay was only a siding and later upgraded when the seperate running line was provided, 74 signal adjacent to the box was installed for the District service to start from. What is your point if you read my last post it says as we know it perhaps I should not have put bay road. The current rails may well have been fed I think it was 1957 before LT feed them. I was commenting on the signalling a different subject. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 17:13:48 GMT
There was no bay at this time, the district terminating in the main down platform to reverse and had to pass onto the West London at Earls Court Jcn. This was due to the fact that the District never had a regular service before 1948 as it was the LNW/LMS that had run a service to Mansion House and later Earl's Court. Therefore the requirement to fully slot West Kensington East from Earls Court Jcn. All conductor rails from south of Viaduct Junction to Kensington South Main box were fed from Shepherds Bush GWR sub-station and then from Kensington South Main box they were fed from Earls Court substation. See also this link www.s-r-s.org.uk/html/gwx/S51-2h.pdf the SW Bay was only a siding and later upgraded when the seperate running line was provided, 74 signal adjacent to the box was installed for the District service to start from. What is your point if you read my last post it says as we know it perhaps I should not have put bay road. The current rails may well have been fed I think it was 1957 before LT feed them. I was commenting on the signalling a different subject. The point is that what ever WB wanted to do on his frame, it still needed Earls Court Jcn to release him first, so the control of the area rested purely with the main line bobby. The current was fed from Earl's Court from cemmencement of the passenger service in 1916 even though they did not own all the conductor rails or track on which they sat. |
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Post by programmes1 on Nov 19, 2010 19:42:03 GMT
What is your point if you read my last post it says as we know it perhaps I should not have put bay road. The current rails may well have been fed I think it was 1957 before LT feed them. I was commenting on the signalling a different subject. The point is that what ever WB wanted to do on his frame, it still needed Earls Court Jcn to release him first, so the control of the area rested purely with the main line bobby. The current was fed from Earl's Court from cemmencement of the passenger service in 1916 even though they did not own all the conductor rails or track on which they sat. Whilst I have to agree that WB had to have the permission of the main line signalman he only gave authority for the moves from Earls Court & Lillie Bridge that does not mean he controlled WB. In the photo mention was made of the disc signal which was controlled from WB but with the main line signalman's authority which still happens all over the country. So Peter Brady I think that puts you in the category of can't understand new technology. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2010 20:09:19 GMT
The point is that what ever WB wanted to do on his frame, it still needed Earls Court Jcn to release him first, so the control of the area rested purely with the main line bobby. The current was fed from Earl's Court from cemmencement of the passenger service in 1916 even though they did not own all the conductor rails or track on which they sat. Whilst I have to agree that WB had to have the permission of the main line signalman he only gave authority for the moves from Earls Court & Lillie Bridge that does not mean he controlled WB. In the photo mention was made of the disc signal which was controlled from WB but with the main line signalman's authority which still happens all over the country. So Peter Brady I think that puts you in the category of can't understand new technology. I don't believe that at any point I said Earls Court Jcn controlled WB, the comment was regarding the area of control as shown in the picture at the start of this thread. As you may be aware WB was an amalgamation of a number of mechanical signal boxes from an earlier time. This included and still does the lines running into West Kensington station and there is most certainly no need for these to be controlled by Earls Court Jcn. The disc signal in view and the semaphore adjacent to it both carry WB plates and were operated by West Kensington West and again I have not said anything to the contry. So the advent slotting, what you call new technology is well understood by me though and I will be quite happy to explain how it works. On a point which appears off thread, which Peter Brady are you refering to as there are quite a few that spring to mind. |
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