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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2010 15:45:08 GMT
In the book The London Underground by Andrew Emmerson (©2010), it says, in connection with the last world war and the blitz, "A connection off the West London Line was bombed so badly that services never resumed."
Does anyone know any details: when, where, what, etc?
Thanks for any assistance about this.
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Post by 21146 on Nov 4, 2010 16:03:08 GMT
In the book The London Underground by Andrew Emmerson (©2010), it says, in connection with the last world war and the blitz, "A connection off the West London Line was bombed so badly that services never resumed." Does anyone know any details: when, where, what, etc? Thanks for any assistance about this. Would that be from Latimer Road down to Olympia? |
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Post by bassmike on Nov 4, 2010 16:13:25 GMT
I believe that there was a goods train which used the latimer rd connection in the down direction (towards KO about once a week. Anyone know any more? I remember noticing that the track in question was less rusty than the other (running rails only of course .
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Post by bassmike on Nov 4, 2010 16:14:51 GMT
RE above , I'm talking about late fourties/ early fifties.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2010 16:31:57 GMT
Hmm, BassMike, you are probably correct.
I see in Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas, 2nd Edition page 49 that he says, "Latimer Rd. to Uxbridge Rd. Spur: ...passenger service withdrawn 1940. Not officially closed until 1954."
If this is it, does anyone have details of the passenger service offered (termini, etc) over this line before 1940?
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Nov 4, 2010 16:44:13 GMT
I'm sure I've got something in the odd WTT or two - but I'm v. busy off-scene for quite a while, so it would take me a while to dig out anything of value for you.
If anyone else can answer the question in the meantime, you'll get the gen. in a shorter order.
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Post by nickf on Nov 4, 2010 16:47:53 GMT
I'm looking at Steam to Silver by J. Graeme Bruce (my copy priced at 18 shillings, so publication details are elderly - London Transport Executive 1970 ISBN 85329 012 1), and it is as full of facts as an egg is of meat. The Latimer Road link to the H&C(1864) was the Middle Circle route. In 1872 (1st August) the GWR began to work trains from Moorgate to Paddington, down the Latimer Road spur to Kensington then onto the District to Earls Court and Mansion House.
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Oracle
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Post by Oracle on Nov 4, 2010 17:17:11 GMT
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Nov 4, 2010 23:15:38 GMT
underground-history.co.uk/cutncover.phpThough interesting,the little article is so riddled with errors and omissions both large and small it should be treated with care. I've often wondered exactly where the bombs fell and what damage they did to cause these services to be suspended...and have drawn a blank,apart from the fact that Battersea and (I think) St.Quintin Park stations were burnt down. My view is that this was then an excuse to withdraw awkward and underused pasenger services to free the WLL for long-distance and freight. Bassmike's remembering the spur in question still being in situ and used for freight after the war doesn't contradict this view.
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Post by nickf on Nov 5, 2010 9:18:42 GMT
Hmm, BassMike, you are probably correct. I see in Joe Brown's London Railway Atlas, 2nd Edition page 49 that he says, "Latimer Rd. to Uxbridge Rd. Spur: ...passenger service withdrawn 1940. Not officially closed until 1954." If this is it, does anyone have details of the passenger service offered (termini, etc) over this line before 1940? J.B. Atkinson in 'The West London Joint Railways' tells us that there was a service from Aldersgate (later Moorgate) to Kensington operated by the GWR from 1864, the first four years being broad gauge. This lasted until 1871, but next year the Middle Circle started, eventually running in 1880 from Aldgate round through Kensington to Mansion House. |
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Post by phillw48 on Nov 5, 2010 10:24:40 GMT
underground-history.co.uk/cutncover.phpI've often wondered exactly where the bombs fell and what damage they did to cause these services to be suspended...and have drawn a blank,apart from the fact that Battersea and (I think) St.Quintin Park stations were burnt down. My view is that this was then an excuse to withdraw awkward and underused pasenger services to free the WLL for long-distance and freight. Bassmike's remembering the spur in question still being in situ and used for freight after the war doesn't contradict this view. There was a whole series of books published a few years ago that gave a day by day account of the Blitz on London. This comprised about four massive tomes that did include maps of where bombs (and the V weapons) fell. The publisher is called 'After the Battle' any good library should have copies. |
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Post by bassmike on Nov 5, 2010 10:39:49 GMT
somewhere I have a b/w photo of the spur (can't find it) taken by J Smith of Lens of Sutton (I knew him very well died in 1999, just didn't make 21st century) taken from an overbridge looking north with a view of the junction from shepherds bush (I think late fifties) which shows all track including conductor rails in situ but disconnected just north of the junction.You can see right up the spur until it curves east to join the h&c and there does not appear to be any bomb damage on it, and having seen the top end from a train on the h&c there was no noticeable damage either. I think it was closed to passengers as stated elsewhere using minor bomb damage trackside near the junction as an excuse. Incidentally IIRC you can see the site of the short-lived platforms at the bottom of the spur as a slight mound with an open space on the right near a side road.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 5, 2010 15:42:09 GMT
Thanks for all the wonderful information, all of you! This is what makes this forum great. I am willing to wait whatever while it takes mrfs42 to find any WTT info from his library sometime in the future.... The Blitz book information sounds great, too. Thanks Phillw48. (I doubt if my local libraries here in the USA will have them though  .) I will do some research on the web, however. I did order a Middleton Library book on the topic of the West London Line today. Hope to get that soon and it may also have more information. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 5, 2010 17:38:58 GMT
The train service provided wasn't too bad if I remember reading correctly. Think it was half hourly from Edgware Road to Addison Road (now Olympia) north bay (now removed). The trains were formed from 1905 Hammersmith and City Saloon joint stock in M-T-DT formation. Later the 1910 Met compartment shuttle cars ran the service. I read the O stock did a gauging run on the line when testing but never ran in service. I also think the line was closed by LT, not the the by the bombs!
I think there was a possilbe plan to keep the line by using either 6 1927 T stock DMs converted to double ended status or to convert the two 1925 prototype T stock saloon cars to shuttle cars.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Nov 5, 2010 23:58:25 GMT
Ooooh, where did the gen for the T stock plan come from?
How very interesting. What authority would nowadays hold an official account of the reason, and what would the upshot be if it was shown to be false?
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Post by bassmike on Nov 6, 2010 10:59:15 GMT
I've just remembered that the G W R ran a short-lived Paddington to Brighton service via this spur .
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 6, 2010 11:54:58 GMT
The train service provided wasn't too bad if I remember reading correctly. Think it was half hourly from Edgware Road to Addison Road (now Olympia) north bay (now removed). The trains were formed from 1905 Hammersmith and City Saloon joint stock in M-T-DT formation. Later the 1910 Met compartment shuttle cars ran the service. I read the O stock did a gauging run on the line when testing but never ran in service. I also think the line was closed by LT, not the the by the bombs! I think there was a possilbe plan to keep the line by using either 6 1927 T stock DMs converted to double ended status or to convert the two 1925 prototype T stock saloon cars to shuttle cars. All the official documentation I've seen on this service shows that the shuttle service was taken over by 2 x 2-car District stock from 4th May 1936 and it was always intended to keep it this way up to the time of the closure in 1940. |
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metman
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Post by metman on Nov 6, 2010 12:37:36 GMT
The T stock thing I think came from Steam to Silver. The shuttles could have been used on other branches too, like the Watford-Ricky and Chesham shuttle. Obviously the war cancelled the Chesham plan and I guess LT didn't bother to act on the Watford shuttle.
I've seen pictures in Surface Stock File (Brian Hardy - great book) with a 3 car 1905 train at Addison Road. There is also a description of the 2 1910 comp shuttles being used on the line - the drivers doors had to be modified to open inwards. As these shuttle cars were moved to the Wembley Park shuttle in the 1930s I can only be lead from what tubeprune says. I wonder what the 2 car district stock was?
Maybe it shared the stock with the ELL allocation?
It could have been B stock M-CT or just any standard BTH cars spare? (ie C-E, G or K stock)
Were some control trailers later not made up from C-D-E stock with the hope of running this service?
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Post by tubeprune on Nov 21, 2010 14:40:15 GMT
The T stock thing I think came from Steam to Silver. The shuttles could have been used on other branches too, like the Watford-Ricky and Chesham shuttle. Obviously the war cancelled the Chesham plan and I guess LT didn't bother to act on the Watford shuttle. I've seen pictures in Surface Stock File (Brian Hardy - great book) with a 3 car 1905 train at Addison Road. There is also a description of the 2 1910 comp shuttles being used on the line - the drivers doors had to be modified to open inwards. Nothing is certain. There is the 1910 film with one of the shuttle coaches, brand new, being used to power a train of saloon stock trailers. It was anything available. Yes. Control trs. were converted for both the ELL and Addison Rd shuttle. |
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.) I will do some research on the web, however.
