cso
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Post by cso on Oct 21, 2010 10:10:53 GMT
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 12:13:21 GMT
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 21, 2010 12:27:34 GMT
No; one fare will be raised by 74%; as the Zones 2-6 day travelcard will be phased out, meaning that there will only be the Zones 1-6 card.
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Post by peterc on Oct 21, 2010 12:34:28 GMT
Some fares up, some unchanged and some going down. I would be in pocket if I lived in zone1 and worked in zone8 rather than the other way round.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 12:37:48 GMT
No; one fare will be raised by 74%; as the Zones 2-6 day travelcard will be phased out, meaning that there will only be the Zones 1-6 card. I just copied and pasted the headline from the article. Anyway, this will take away the advantage of people using Overground to avoid zone 1. Also will this be the end of the recently installed pink oyster readers?
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Post by harlesden on Oct 21, 2010 13:30:52 GMT
I thought that in the context of fares, the word "rise" has been deemed politically incorrect. The acceptable term is "fares revision".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 13:34:52 GMT
I think I'd rather walk than pay these prices.
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Post by su31 on Oct 21, 2010 15:53:11 GMT
No; one fare will be raised by 74%; as the Zones 2-6 day travelcard will be phased out, meaning that there will only be the Zones 1-6 card. I just copied and pasted the headline from the article. Anyway, this will take away the advantage of people using Overground to avoid zone 1. Also will this be the end of the recently installed pink oyster readers? It would have been possible to avoid zone 1, but Shoreditch High Street is in zone 1 so you get clobbered anyway!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 16:07:37 GMT
No; one fare will be raised by 74%; as the Zones 2-6 day travelcard will be phased out, meaning that there will only be the Zones 1-6 card. Anyway, this will take away the advantage of people using Overground to avoid zone 1. Also will this be the end of the recently installed pink oyster readers? I think it's only the paper zones 2-6 Travelcard that's being withdrawn - the Oyster cap for journeys avoiding zone 1 would still be lower. Will Network Railcard discount still be available on Travelcards?
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 21, 2010 16:33:44 GMT
It would have been possible to avoid zone 1, but Shoreditch High Street is in zone 1 so you get clobbered anyway! Stratford - West Hampstead (for example) can be done without using Z1.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Oct 21, 2010 16:41:00 GMT
I think it's only the paper zones 2-6 Travelcard that's being withdrawn - the Oyster cap for journeys avoiding zone 1 would still be lower. Not as I read it - single fares will still be available for any combinatipon of contiguous zones (e.g. 2-4), but the Oyster caps will be at the relevant travelcard rate (i.e. 1-40. Paper Travelcards will I think still be available, but not from newsagents.
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Post by harlesden on Oct 21, 2010 16:43:53 GMT
I haven't been able to buy a paper One-Day TravelCard from a Ticket Stop throughout this year. They also insist they cannot renew a New Deal weekly even though LU ticket clerks insist there is no reason why not.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 17:35:10 GMT
Having a look through the new fares:
Oyster deposit goes up to £5. "Railcard oyster offer" is to be extended to off-peak LU/DLR fares. Common child PAYG offpeak single fare of 65p even on NR services. A new offpeak evening fare into zone 1 from any journey that starts in zone 2 or beyond.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 18:30:09 GMT
I think it's only the paper zones 2-6 Travelcard that's being withdrawn - the Oyster cap for journeys avoiding zone 1 would still be lower. Not as I read it - single fares will still be available for any combinatipon of contiguous zones (e.g. 2-4), but the Oyster caps will be at the relevant travelcard rate (i.e. 1-40. You are correct, the 2011 price cap chart for zone 2-6 and 2-9 simply gives the prices of the respective zone 1-6 and 1-9 caps, and lists it as being an increase of between 56.9% (z2-6 off-peak) and 78.6% (z2-9 peak).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2010 18:51:34 GMT
I think I'd rather walk than pay these prices. A bit drastic but you will reduce numbers otherwise crammed in to the trains. Cheers Bengley. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png)
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 21, 2010 19:11:18 GMT
I think I'd rather walk than pay these prices. A bit drastic but you will reduce numbers otherwise crammed in to the trains. Cheers Bengley. ![:P](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/tongue.png) I think he is making a sensible decision, more people should literally vote with their feet. I am no fan of above inflation price hikes, it is just another form of taxation and if I was a paying passenger I'd be mortified at the endless x% above inflation increases for the kind of service that has been delivered over the last few years. The trouble is that it is a trend set to continue, I don't know if I'm correct but my belief is that Ken Livingstone began it and everyone has jumped on the bandwagon ever since.
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Post by Tomcakes on Oct 21, 2010 20:50:16 GMT
Some fares up, some unchanged and some going down. I would be in pocket if I lived in zone1 and worked in zone8 rather than the other way round. ... or if you live in zone 8 and work the nightshift in zone 1 ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png) .
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Oct 21, 2010 23:09:19 GMT
Red Ken raising fares? GLA or GLC era?
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vato
Zone 6D - Special Fares Apply
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Post by vato on Oct 22, 2010 0:33:35 GMT
as far as i can make out, the peak cash single fare for zone 1-9 is unchanged - which i am massively surprised by, as i expected to be right royally shafted. if that's the case, is the oyster payg equivalent also unchanged?
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 22, 2010 4:13:24 GMT
Red Ken raising fares? GLA or GLC era? In his capacity as Mayor he quite happily introduced above inflation fare increases year on year and flooded the capital with extra bus routes. Not all bad but there is something very perverse about paying a premium for improvements that actually lead to poorer service in the over extended 'short term' as is the case for LUL. The various Underground PPP agreements should have led to less investment by the taxpayer but with Ken at the helm London taxpayers had to cough up three ways, income tax (the PPP cost more than the old investment strategy), council tax and Ken's above inflation improvement premium on fares. It is a pattern that councils up and down the land would love to follow and of course the jewel in the crown was the congestion charge which is simply a cash cow like the surveillance cameras misused by councils in so many ways. Living in London has become very much a mug's game but I worry that the rest of the country is becoming just like it in so many ways following all the bad examples set there.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 22, 2010 10:00:34 GMT
You can hardly blame Ken Livingstone for the PPP - he fought tooth and nail against it's introduction. But unfortunately for London, Gordon Brown as chancellor forced it through.
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Post by peterc on Oct 22, 2010 17:20:27 GMT
I couldn't find anything about PAYG but was very suprised about the 1-8 and 1-9 cash fares being held.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Oct 22, 2010 17:38:42 GMT
Moderator hatPlease let us not go down the political route, mistakes have been made, we all accept that, but this isn't the place to worry about it. /Moderator hatFare rises are an inevitability of society, and there isn't a great deal we can do about it. The service has to be paid for somehow, it ain't going to keep running as it did 100+ years ago when it was all set up. Inflation, cost of resources etc are all going to take their toll, and at the end of the day we are going to have to pay for it. It's a case of put up and shut up, or vote with your feet ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Oct 22, 2010 18:01:25 GMT
Fare rises are an inevitability of society, and there isn't a great deal we can do about it. Not quite. Fare rises are an inevitability due to inflation. Inflation is an inevitability in the current global financial model (and thus current society), but it is not an inevitability of all societies. I shall try and find again the excellent article on this I read a few years back. If/when I find it though I'll put it in a new thread in the general area unless the mods say otherwise.
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Post by splashdown on Oct 23, 2010 1:01:25 GMT
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 23, 2010 1:30:59 GMT
To understand the complexities of pricing here are some articles about the price of bananas: When bananas mature, as part of the ripening process they give off acetylene gas - historically they have been a dangerous and potentially inflammable cargo. I don't think passengers have ever been regarded as a cargo that is capable of self-igniting; so what's the link, please?
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Post by railtechnician on Oct 23, 2010 13:04:11 GMT
You can hardly blame Ken Livingstone for the PPP - he fought tooth and nail against it's introduction. But unfortunately for London, Gordon Brown as chancellor forced it through. I didn't blame him for the PPP at all! I blamed him for the fare increases as the third method of charging London taxpayers for something that still hasn't been delivered.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2010 14:51:06 GMT
Red Ken raising fares? GLA or GLC era? In his capacity as Mayor he quite happily introduced above inflation fare increases year on year and flooded the capital with extra bus routes. Not all bad but there is something very perverse about paying a premium for improvements that actually lead to poorer service in the over extended 'short term' as is the case for LUL. The various Underground PPP agreements should have led to less investment by the taxpayer but with Ken at the helm London taxpayers had to cough up three ways, income tax (the PPP cost more than the old investment strategy), council tax and Ken's above inflation improvement premium on fares. It is a pattern that councils up and down the land would love to follow and of course the jewel in the crown was the congestion charge which is simply a cash cow like the surveillance cameras misused by councils in so many ways. Living in London has become very much a mug's game but I worry that the rest of the country is becoming just like it in so many ways following all the bad examples set there. To put it into context: When I moved to London in 2001, Council Tax for me was just under £600 a year. Its now at £1120, almost doubled in ten years. Prices changes are a fact of life... get used to it. Long standing rail users should know this by now, that the only way fares are going to go is UP, so get used to it. I can't see a decrease likely. The demands on the company finances will increase, wage demands. I'd like to see a real terms cost per passenger plan being worked out, I bet the end result will be a bit more that your current £1.80 Zone 1 single on Oyster PAYG.... Ken long hated the PPP route we eventually were forced to go down.... Look what happened; "I told you so!" people said to Gordon Brown. Question: Just how many people will be affected by the 74% increase to that one fare?
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