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Post by londonse on Oct 6, 2010 17:07:58 GMT
Hoping some of the TT people will be able to help. When the layout included a scissors crossover and siding a) was it the NB platform or did they use both? b) was there any scheduled starting/stabling in the siding?
Paul
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Post by Deleted on Oct 6, 2010 19:16:39 GMT
They used both platforms with minimum turn-round time. I saw them often, both as full-length trains and also when they operated 3- and 4-car trains. They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used.
Euston reversers in the peaks was eliminated from WTT No.11 2/3/59.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 6, 2010 20:09:39 GMT
They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used. They were, supposedly alternate. b) was there any scheduled starting/stabling in the siding? How far back do you want to go? I've got a couple of CSLR examples and a Morden-Edgware somewhere. There was a morning starter/evening stabler in the M-E WTT. |
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 7:59:34 GMT
They used both platforms with minimum turn-round time. I saw them often, both as full-length trains and also when they operated 3- and 4-car trains. They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used. Euston reversers in the peaks was eliminated from WTT No.11 2/3/59. Reg many thanks. Paul |
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 8:01:42 GMT
They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used. They were, supposedly alternate. b) was there any scheduled starting/stabling in the siding? How far back do you want to go? I've got a couple of CSLR examples and a Morden-Edgware somewhere. There was a morning starter/evening stabler in the M-E WTT. MRFS many thanks, 1945ish if you have anything would be interested. Paul |
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 9:07:02 GMT
As an after thought were there any SB reversers via the siding?
Paul
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 9:20:05 GMT
As an after thought were there any SB reversers via the siding? Paul Well, you're in luck I've got a 1945 WTT in front of me now; and I'm doing a little list. I've got to 10.55½ on Saturdays Excepted and there has been one reverse via the SB platform all the others have been via the siding. Did you mean a train heading south and going back north via the siding? If that's the case, I'll enumerate them separately. EDIT: Some interesting things thus far... I suspect Euston (City) was used to assist/relieve Tooting - Morden, as it forms a stable pattern - every third one being ex-Tooting. Also the reversing train is booked to arrive 2½min before the previous reverser has departed. |
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 10:04:14 GMT
As an after thought were there any SB reversers via the siding? Paul Did you mean a train heading south and going back north via the siding? If that's the case, I'll enumerate them separately. MRFS yes I did mean a train going SB, also what were the services Morden-Euston? Tooting-Euston? Kennington-Euston? Paul |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 10:09:27 GMT
I'll write the Morden/Kennington/Tooting - Euston services up later on in frequency; if you want. The list headers are train number, time, ex [station], Euston arrival, platform, next working.
So, hopefully all Euston terminators will be on the list, I'll have a look to see what the frequency was in minutes for the other (through) services.
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 10:11:00 GMT
I'll write the Morden/Kennington/Tooting - Euston services up later on in frequency; if you want. The list headers are train number, time, ex [station], Euston arrival, platform, next working. So, hopefully all Euston terminators will be on the list, I'll have a look to see what the frequency was in minutes for the other (through) services. MRFS many thanks. Paul |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 11:22:49 GMT
Lunch slack hours service; Saturdays excepted:  as you can see the timings are set around a rigid 10 minute arrival time at Euston City. I'll type up the matrix for Morden/Tooting departures during this clockface period in the slack hours in a mo. xx.02 Golders Greenxx.05 Mill Hill East yy.13½ Euston ex-Tooting xx.11 Golders Greenxx.12½ High Barnet xx.17 Eustonxx.20 Mill Hill East yy.28½ Golders Green ex-Tooting xx.26 Eustonxx.27½ High Barnet xx.32 Golders Greenxx.35 Mill Hill East yy.43½ Euston ex-Tooting xx.41 Golders Greenxx.42½ High Barnet xx.47 Eustonxx.50 Mill Hill East yy.58½ Golders Green ex-Tooting xx.56 Eustonxx.57½ High Barnet Tooting originators appear out of strict chronological order, but are presented in galley order. Now for the evening reversers... ;D |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 12:38:20 GMT
Evening reversers, as you'll see - no Tooting originators.  Ex- Morden services during the clockface part coming up shortly. xx.02 Golders Greenxx.05 Mill Hill East xx.07 Eustonxx.11 Golders Greenxx.12½ High Barnet xx.17 Eustonxx.20 Mill Hilll East xx.22 Golders Greenxx.26 Eustonxx.27½ High Barnet xx.32 Golders Greenxx.35 Mill Hill East xx.37 Eustonxx.41 Golders Greenxx.42½ High Barnet xx.47 Eustonxx.50 Mill Hill East xx.52 Golders Greenxx.56 Eustonxx.57½ High Barnet |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 13:42:13 GMT
Saturdays were very similar indeed - Sundays were a different kettle of fish altogether - more to follow on that. Anyway, in this WTT 178.5/11/45 the following started/stabled at Euston:
Saturdays Excepted:
34, start 5.3am; 14 stable 12.45am
Saturdays Only:
34, start 5.3am; 9 stable 12.45am
Sundays:
50 start 7.2am; 53 stable 12.44am.
Of anecdotal interest, it is heartening to see Kennington Siding used to stable two trains, just like Down Street did.
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Post by londonse on Oct 7, 2010 14:00:55 GMT
Saturdays were very similar indeed - Sundays were a different kettle of fish altogether - more to follow on that. Anyway, in this WTT 178.5/11/45 the following started/stabled at Euston: Saturdays Excepted: 34, start 5.3am; 14 stable 12.45am Saturdays Only: 34, start 5.3am; 9 stable 12.45am Sundays: 50 start 7.2am; 53 stable 12.44am. Of anecdotal interest, it is heartening to see Kennington Siding used to stable two trains, just like Down Street did. MRFS many thanks that's one I owe you, Re the lists at the beginning they show SB then SDG? did they go into the siding and then come out before going SB? Paul |
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 7, 2010 14:14:39 GMT
Yes - this particular WTT seemed to favour the use of the siding for reversing - obviously this was quite a bit of a faff, as it involves changing ends twice. In later WTTs they did alternate, but with a bias towards the NB platform - I've got some notes from a 1956 WTT somewhere, but it isn't the easiest to read:  Sundays:  As you can see all reversing in the SB platform - services off Morden during this period were: xx.02 Golders Greenxx.05 High Barnet xx.08 Eustonxx.12 Golders Greenxx.15 High Barnet xx.18 Eustonxx.22 Golders Greenxx.25 High Barnet xx. 28 Eustonxx.32 Golders Greenxx.35 High Barnet xx.38 Eustonxx.42 Golders Greenxx.45 High Barnet xx.48 Eustonxx.52 Golders Greenxx.55 High Barnet xx.58 EustonOk then - having dug for the proverbial needle in the haystack there were SB reversers! Just the one each day - no directions as to going into the siding as printed on the galley, but in each case the 11.42pm off Barnet reversed north at Euston arriving 12.11am departing 1222½am to Mill Hill East arriving there at 12.44am and forming the last staff off MHE to Highgate Woods - this didn't happen on Sunday, trains 28 (M-F) and 35 (Sats). HTH. ;D |
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Post by londonse on Oct 8, 2010 12:44:53 GMT
MRFS thank you so much for this information this is really the best forum.
Paul
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Post by smudge76 on Oct 11, 2010 11:40:10 GMT
They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used. They were, supposedly alternate. b) was there any scheduled starting/stabling in the siding? How far back do you want to go? I've got a couple of CSLR examples and a Morden-Edgware somewhere. There was a morning starter/evening stabler in the M-E WTT. |
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Post by smudge76 on Oct 11, 2010 11:45:21 GMT
I think I can put you all out of your misery?
As both signalman and relief signalman on the Northern with a year at Euston. Only the SB platform was used to reverse since it was the only platform with a front cab clear plunger. The NB was used during disruption to the service. Im really streching my brain in thinking there was a SB shunt back from the SB to NB but 57 years was a long time ago.
I shall be offering some memories on other points elsewhere in this forum.
Smudger
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Post by mrfs42 on Oct 11, 2010 13:11:36 GMT
Splendid - welcome along - and many thanks for the pictures you took of the Northern Line signalling in the 50s and 60s. ;D
However, the 1956 Northern WTT (7) which I put a photograph up in reply No. 14 did have booked moves to the northbound platform.
I wonder if this was as part of the resignalling of the Piccadilly in 1956. I'll have a look through some other WTTs to see if there were other booked reversers in the northbound platform.
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Post by londonse on Oct 12, 2010 8:36:26 GMT
I think I can put you all out of your misery? As both signalman and relief signalman on the Northern with a year at Euston. Only the SB platform was used to reverse since it was the only platform with a front cab clear plunger. The NB was used during disruption to the service. Im really streching my brain in thinking there was a SB shunt back from the SB to NB but 57 years was a long time ago. I shall be offering some memories on other points elsewhere in this forum. Smudger Was the rear cab connected to the signalling when the area was converted to programme machine operation. Paul |
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Post by programmes1 on Oct 16, 2010 11:59:09 GMT
I think I can put you all out of your misery? As both signalman and relief signalman on the Northern with a year at Euston. Only the SB platform was used to reverse since it was the only platform with a front cab clear plunger. The NB was used during disruption to the service. Im really streching my brain in thinking there was a SB shunt back from the SB to NB but 57 years was a long time ago. I shall be offering some memories on other points elsewhere in this forum. Smudger Was the rear cab connected to the signalling when the area was converted to programme machine operation. Paul Can't answer for Euston Smudge76 will have to answer, but at Brixton they have PMs and rear cab clear plungers. |
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Post by smudge76 on Nov 11, 2010 15:57:56 GMT
They may have been scheduled into a specific platform but in reality either was used. They were, supposedly alternate. b) was there any scheduled starting/stabling in the siding? How far back do you want to go? I've got a couple of CSLR examples and a Morden-Edgware somewhere. There was a morning starter/evening stabler in the M-E WTT. As both signalman and relief signalman at Euston I distincly recall the few reversers were only in the rush hour and always into the SB platform. There was never any stabling in the siding. The timetable you show smells of an emergency TT possibly during the single line operation between Hampstead & GG via the NB route. I don't ever recall city trains going to MH upto 1977 when I left. Double train stabling in Kennington was banned after the Tooting incident. A train was stabled in Kennington over night that became the SB staff train in the morning. When you get managment not experienced in train operations, strange things happen that are completley out of context today. I must take another look at some of my old TT's when the line operated a 100 trains in the rush hour. |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2010 21:34:22 GMT
There was very little turnround time at Euston for rush hour reversers. There was also no mention of stepping back there. Did crews step back or did they just "move themselves"?
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