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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:38:08 GMT
The Met is currently, and has been for an hour or more, suspended between Chalfont & Latimer and Chesham.
There is no mention of this on the TFL website, nor are there any staff at Chesham station to give vouchers to taxi drivers.
I had to tell two people that there were no trains from Chesham, they didn't believe me at first because I'm just a teenager but after their train didn't arrive I tried to help them by using the station to station telephone to contact Chalfont, but there was nobody there either to answer it.
It still isn't advertised to be suspended at Chesham, so people who turn up will just assume that their train is scheduled to leave as normal.
Does anyone here know why the service was suspended, and if so, what should the arrangements be for an unstaffed station in this scenario (another reason not to leave stations unstaffed, might I add!)
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:44:08 GMT
The Met is currently, and has been for an hour or more, suspended between Chalfont & Latimer and Chesham. There is no mention of this on the TFL website, nor are there any staff at Chesham station to give vouchers to taxi drivers. I had to tell two people that there were no trains from Chesham, they didn't believe me at first because I'm just a teenager but after their train didn't arrive I tried to help them by using the station to station telephone to contact Chalfont, but there was nobody there either to answer it. It still isn't advertised to be suspended at Chesham, so people who turn up will just assume that their train is scheduled to leave as normal. Does anyone here know why the service was suspended, and if so, what should the arrangements be for an unstaffed station in this scenario (another reason not to leave stations unstaffed, might I add!) It is not put out as a suspension as it is a 'local' issue. That's what someone at the NOC once told me. Quite how people going to Chesham are meant to know that beats me. But it does make the service status look good. As for Chesham station, it is possible that there is no one there due to staff shortage. Get used to that sadly. I tried to help them by using the station to station telephone to contact Chalfont, but there was nobody there either to answer it. Is that what the phone said? They should be padlocked, if it was a station to station phone. Of course the normal auto phones often have a list of phone numbers scrawled on them which staff may find useful in contacting people to get information about such matters.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:53:13 GMT
I pressed the buzzer on the StS phone, it wasn't padlocked, but there was no answer.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:57:14 GMT
I pressed the buzzer on the StS phone, it wasn't padlocked, but there was no answer. Maybe this is a local thing that isn't the one used for the Rule Book procedure. If you have the phone number for Travel Information/Customer Services, they are quite often very helpful and contact the Service Control people to find out what is going on. I'd definatly recommend a complaint. It's just not County Class, let alone World Class!
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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2010 22:59:04 GMT
A passenger at the station phoned tfl travel information, apparently they didn't know of a suspension either - they told him the next train was at 23:07
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Post by knap on Sept 23, 2010 12:09:43 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2010 15:46:21 GMT
they didn't believe me at first because I'm just a teenager Annoying that! When they moved the bus rank in town, it was early (6am) and I told people, none of which believed me and continued to wait for buses which would never come!
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Post by citysig on Sept 23, 2010 17:42:09 GMT
The Chesham shuttle was suspended after 2215, with one through service operating as a last train around 0035.
The service was suspended as a result of crew shortage, and it was either suspend this, or cancel a couple of later through services from the city towards Amersham/Chesham.
Taxis were laid on (using our usual company) but Chiltern railways had a service suspension due to a fatality at Wembley. As a result, the taxis took their customers in favour of ours (a fare to High Wycombe is better than to Chesham).
Tfl information, the NOC etc. plus local stations were all made aware of the service suspension, and frequent information was broadcast from our room to drivers and stations.
The Chesham branch is rarely shown as suspended in the normal way. One reason is that customers using the rest of the Met line may avoid their normal route if they notice "Part Suspended" and don't read the detail. Therefore such suspensions are generally advised locally.
Just to compound things, at the same time as the service was suspended, a staff shortage meant that Chesham station was unmanned. Staff were sent to Chesham to advise anyone waiting, but there would naturally have been a delay in them reaching there.
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vato
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Post by vato on Sept 23, 2010 17:50:23 GMT
Thank you for that explanation.
It does seem odd that passengers who want to go to/from Chesham would have the suspension hidden from them in order to 'protect' passengers who wouldn't be impacted anyway? I suppose it's one of those things where boiling down a complicated selection of items into a simple red-amber-green-style metric causes 2nd order effects...
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2010 21:48:21 GMT
Shame that the 'Disrupted' message can't be used for these instances, but I suppose you're running the same risk as 'Part Suspended'.
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Sept 27, 2010 0:39:25 GMT
What you need is something like "Good service to all (Metropolitan Line) destinations except Chesham".
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 27, 2010 3:24:06 GMT
What you need is something like "Good service to all (Metropolitan Line) destinations except Chesham". A shade long - why not just 'No Chesham' (it also helps that the letters have a distinctive shape - I just look at the pattern on the service update things)?
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Post by citysig on Sept 27, 2010 11:53:59 GMT
Don't worry, I am sure once the integrated service (makes it sound so much better than it will be ) begins in December the Chesham branch will be more a part of the main line, and will be worthy of the full "Part Suspended" message. Just to add to confusion yesterday evening, the Jubilee was shown as "Part Closure" (Stanmore-West Hampstead for engineering work) and also "Part Suspended" (West Hampstead-Stratford for a signal failure.) At that point a full on "Line Closed" would have served better. And for a short time earlier in the week, I did witness a very brief "Part Suspended" for the Waterloo & City line ;D
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Sept 27, 2010 12:07:24 GMT
And for a short time earlier in the week, I did witness a very brief "Part Suspended" for the Waterloo & City line ;D Excellent!! ;D
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Post by andypurk on Sept 27, 2010 20:00:53 GMT
And for a short time earlier in the week, I did witness a very brief "Part Suspended" for the Waterloo & City line ;D Excellent!! ;D I'm sure I've seen 'Part Suspended' for the W&C when one of the platforms at Waterloo has been flooded (or had some other problem); the trains were only running in passenger service in one direction.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 12:08:35 GMT
So, no trains, no replacement buses, no taxis, no staff and no information !!! As for information kept secret by some non-standard process it's about as justifiable as the "good service" on strike days. Am I the only person who thinks this episode is wholely unacceptable?
Next we'll justify a complete shutdown of the Circle Line shown as "good service" in case someone misreads it as "Central Line"!!!
I would have thought pulling the very odd one of the many Uxbridge or Watford trains to divert to Chesham would appear to have been reasonable in the interests of good customer service!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Sept 28, 2010 13:31:32 GMT
I would have thought pulling the very odd one of the many Uxbridge or Watford trains to divert to Chesham would appear to have been reasonable in the interests of good customer service! So you'd create a 20 minute gap on one of the main branches to serve a single station? I'm not so sure this is the obvious and total solution. In terms of the big picture, that being the whole Metropolitan line, a single station is just that!!
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Post by harlesden on Sept 28, 2010 14:27:06 GMT
It can't be far to walk from Chalfont or Amersham to/from Chesham. The group could have a sing song as they go and they wouldn't notice the distance
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Post by citysig on Sept 28, 2010 14:47:38 GMT
As for information kept secret by some non-standard process it's about as justifiable as the "good service" on strike days. Agreed, and it has been going on a long time - that is the information being given out is "tweaked" to make sure targets are met. The lack of staff was one of those unfortunate co-incidences. The Chesham Supervisor's shift ending at the same time as the train needed to be sent to depot to avoid the Train Operator being forced into overtime. A DSM was sent up there, but obviously this wasn't an instant event and so some people were faced with no staff to advise what was going on. The lack of taxis was, as I said, us being let down by the regular company used when the shuttle is suspended. That is there choice, but it did kind of leave us having to find an alternative company at that time of night in that location (it's not central London remember). I would have thought pulling the very odd one of the many Uxbridge or Watford trains to divert to Chesham would appear to have been reasonable in the interests of good customer service! Normally, yes. But not at that time of night. You've got to find a train with a night-turn operator that can be diverted and actually run in a path that serves a purpose. Once the train is put off path, you've then got to make sure there is enough time to get the train back to where it is meant to stable. Leave a depot or siding short of a train, then you end up cancelling morning services. At the end of the day, it was me who had to give the Service Manager the options based on what we had: cancel a late-night Amersham and create an hour-long gap as well from that area, or suspend the shuttle - leaving just the late-night through service. If you could have made a better decision, then my seat is always available ;D
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cso
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Post by cso on Sept 28, 2010 15:14:19 GMT
It can't be far to walk from Chalfont or Amersham to/from Chesham. The group could have a sing song as they go and they wouldn't notice the distance Err... I think I can probably guess what the member of staff would be told if they suggested that... and I can't imagine it would be very pleasant. Chalfont - Chesham: 4.1mi 1hr 21minsAmersham - Chesham: 2mi 38 mins
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Post by peterc on Sept 28, 2010 15:47:12 GMT
Also Chalfont to Chesham is largely on unlit country road without footpaths.
Met line disruptions wouldn't be so bad if the local bus service didn't shut down at tea time.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 16:21:15 GMT
It can't be far to walk from Chalfont or Amersham to/from Chesham. The group could have a sing song as they go and they wouldn't notice the distance Sure, when the last train to London leaves Amersham in 40 minutes and you need to get that train, walking more than 2 miles in the dark on country roads is a great idea!
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Post by harlesden on Sept 28, 2010 16:27:09 GMT
It can't be far to walk from Chalfont or Amersham to/from Chesham. The group could have a sing song as they go and they wouldn't notice the distance Err... I think I can probably guess what the member of staff would be told if they suggested that... and I can't imagine it would be very pleasant. Chalfont - Chesham: 4.1mi 1hr 21minsAmersham - Chesham: 2mi 38 minsI once walked the 16 miles between Louth town centre and Grimsby town centre in 3 hours and 50 minutes - equivalent to 8 miles in 1 hr 55 mins or 2 miles in 29 minutes. I was a 12 year old kid - the coach back to Grimsby had left me behind at Louth. I just walked steadily along the A16 until I reached my destination.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 18:33:18 GMT
I suspect harlesden is being rather playful here. The route he marched from Louth to Grimsby is quite gruelling and testemant to his staying power, even at 12 years old. It's not uncommion, even today, for similar journeys to be undertaken in Lincolnshire by people of all ages. However, the thought of a contingent of middle aged city brokers attempting Chalfont or Amersham to Chesham on foot should put the Bucks ambulance service (and reserves) on full alert.......
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Post by norbitonflyer on Sept 28, 2010 19:20:43 GMT
the options based on what we had: cancel a late-night Amersham and create an hour-long gap as well from that area, or suspend the shuttle Chiltern normalty run every half hour to Amersham until well after midnight, (11pm s/b), but I notice you said they had problems of their own that night, which might have made Amersham more of a priority than usual.
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Post by slugabed on Sept 28, 2010 21:03:02 GMT
It can't be far to walk from Chalfont or Amersham to/from Chesham. The group could have a sing song as they go and they wouldn't notice the distance With a member of Station Staff bringing up the rear to finish off the stragglers?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2010 23:01:27 GMT
At the end of the day, it was me who had to give the Service Manager the options based on what we had: cancel a late-night Amersham and create an hour-long gap as well from that area, or suspend the shuttle - leaving just the late-night through service. If you could have made a better decision, then my seat is always available ;D Without knowing all the ins and outs, an hour long gap to Amersham (less Chilterns) would have seem to have been a better option than just abandoning Chesham (for more than two hours)
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Post by citysig on Sept 29, 2010 9:51:53 GMT
The Chiltern problem was a fatality on the "other" side of their route, affecting the Birmingham service. The Aylesbury service ran more or less ok.
I'm not entirely sure why so many Chiltern customers ended up at Amersham, and not further north. But whatever the reason they poached the taxis.
Now just to clarify the options that were on the table:
Option 1. Cancel a train that would leave an un-fillable 1 hour southbound gap. The next service available to those at Amersham would also only go as far as Wembley Park (whereas the cancelled train went to Baker Street and connected with city services). The same cancelled train would then form the last northbound Uxbridge service - leaving those customers with an early finish of almost 25 minutes or alternatively us delaying the pen-ultimate service to cover the path of the last train - again delaying those people.
Option 2. Suspend the Chesham train service until the last booked trains (so around 2hrs 30 mins without a train) and lay on taxis supplied by a tried and trusted local taxi company (who normally turn up at the first whiff of extra money to be made - and almost seem to be on our internal pager system as they often arrive before being asked) between Amersham and Chesham. The shuttle could not run any later than it did as both train and driver needed to get back to Neasden depot.
Now I don't know what passenger numbers were on the evening. But at that time of the evening, when the service is winding down, you have to provide the best opportunities for everyone to get home, and not just a handful. In doing this, you must not delay the end of traffic (or you end up delaying engineering works, which could in turn delay the next day's start-up of traffic). You also don't have that many trains or drivers to play with.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 29, 2010 17:03:45 GMT
No doubt the decision to cancel the Chesham shuttle was the right one. The decision not to announce it as a Part Suspension was at best political or as our politicians call it "spin". However the problem would have been made 100% better IF a member of station staff was available at Chesham. I could make a statement regarding the 800 job losses among the station grades but you'd reply that all stations will be staffed during the traffic day - which isn't achievable now is it......
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Post by citysig on Sept 29, 2010 17:34:34 GMT
I could make a statement regarding the 800 job losses among the station grades but you'd reply that all stations will be staffed during the traffic day - which isn't achievable now is it...... Not wishing to get involved with a full on politcal row, but this crossed my mind - but maybe not in the same way it has crossed yours. You see, the Chesham supervisor had been offered overtime to stay on until a DSM could arrive (within the hour) but turned the offer down. At that point in time, it wasn't even the proper booking off time for the supervisor. You would think a grade that was trying to protect itself would try its utmost to avoid situations where they prove that sometimes they are not missed. It seems - from the many occasions the staff themselves allow it to happen - that stations can be left unmanned.
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