mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 20, 2010 8:23:37 GMT
I was heading to Winchester yesterday for a couple of pints and a chat about various automatic signalling installations - coming in from Canterbury, I decided to get off at Stratford International and wend my way to Waterloo via the Jubilly (partly to have a grice of the TBTC signage also). I was interested to see that the middle platform was occupied at North Greenwich - we were sat heading into the city "being regulated" - I reckon it was a B or a b stand time TBH. I think there were a couple of late peak 'shoulder' NOG reversers in WTT 10, are there any booked in the current WTT - I suppose I'd have trundled through NOG at about 1043/46 or thereabouts.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 15:26:03 GMT
I do see the odd North Greenwich reverser on the departure boards. In fact there's one on the departure boards at the very moment.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 20, 2010 16:05:55 GMT
I was heading to Winchester yesterday for a couple of pints and a chat about various automatic signalling installations - coming in from Canterbury, I decided to get off at Stratford International and wend my way to Waterloo via the Jubilly (partly to have a grice of the TBTC signage also). I was interested to see that the middle platform was occupied at North Greenwich - we were sat heading into the city "being regulated" - I reckon it was a B or a b stand time TBH. I think there were a couple of late peak 'shoulder' NOG reversers in WTT 10, are there any booked in the current WTT - I suppose I'd have trundled through NOG at about 1043/46 or thereabouts. No booked reversers NOG at the time you were heading west, but if the service was running late a train may well have been short tripped. Working timetable No. 10 is still in use ;D
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 20, 2010 17:30:39 GMT
Splendid, just the two booked morning reversers then?
Thanks.
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DWS
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Post by DWS on Aug 20, 2010 18:04:02 GMT
Splendid, just the two booked morning reversers then? Thanks. When I return to work will look at TimeTable and post next week.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 18:39:25 GMT
Regular spectator (and participant) of Jubilee Line trains being turned round at North Greenwich here.
They are not normally indicated as such in Central London, but as you approach Canary Wharf if the PA starts to crakle you just get the feeling that the message is coming - 'we are now turning round at North Greenwich, change here at Canary Wharf for the next train'. Sometimes the message is added to with a statement that a Stratford train is"right behind us" (always lies), and sometimes there is a mumbled non-official apology for the notice "only just having been given by the control room".
We have wondered if the reliability measurement by the Good Service Department is officially taken only at some more central point on the line, so if trains are turned round at North Greenwich they are somehow not identified as such in the management statistics.
Would you believe there are occasions when passengers are put out at Canary Wharf, and when the next train to Stratford finally arrives you cannot even get into it, it is so full. This is a paticular issue at around 7 pm in the evening.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 20, 2010 21:47:08 GMT
NOG 'passenger' reversers (east-west) in WTT No.10 for MF:
07.52½ - 08.05 08.12½ - 08.25 08.33 - 08.45 08.53 - 09.05 09.13 - 09.25 09.33 - 09.45
16.28 - 16.35½ 16.45 - 16.55½ 17.05½ - 17.15½ 17.25 - 17.35½ 17.45½ - 17.55½ 18.05½ - 18.15½ 18.25½ - 18.35½ 18.48 - 18.56 19.08½ - 19.17
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 20, 2010 23:56:32 GMT
TVM reg if I were not in Swanage at a gathering of AI's clan, I would have dug out the WTT. Useful extract, though. I remembered the 0925/45 as they're on one page.
Diana I really think you'd be far happier if the JLE just didn't exist!
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 21, 2010 2:17:35 GMT
Diana I really think you'd be far happier if the JLE just didn't exist! It effectively doesn't most weekends these days, and from her postings on here that isn't an occurrence that fills her with unbridled joy
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 6:26:41 GMT
Diana I really think you'd be far happier if the JLE just didn't exist! But it doesn't exist anyway as far as I'm concerned! Up early at the house here today, as Diana is off eastwards to meet the family, so you boys will be spared my comments for a while (is that "Hooray's" I hear floating across London?) Now I don't have to check if the Metro is running at our destination, as it just always is. Every centimetre of it, 7 days a week. But here, of course, the Jubilee Line is not running beyond Waterloo today, so once again not able to go through to Green Park to connect to the Piccadilly Line to Heathrow. Never mind, the second option is DLR from Canning Town through to Tower Gateway and then the District Line on to Hammersmith. Guess what, THAT'S closed today as well......
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 7:59:36 GMT
Jubilee to Waterloo Bakerloo to Piccadilly Circus Piccadilly to Heathrow
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Post by Deleted on Aug 21, 2010 8:17:11 GMT
I was thinking
DLR to Bank Central to Holborn Pic to Heathrow
Diana, how will your posts read when they finally finish upgrading the Jub? Have you considered moving to another area of town where there is future planned upgrade work? Just to keep you busy on this forum I mean...
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 21, 2010 8:51:16 GMT
Sorry Diana, but short tripping of trains is unfortunately a fact of life. It isn't just done at North Greenwich, but equally so at the other end of the line. It's just as likely that a Stanmore train is told to reverse at Wembley Park just as the train approaches Neasden, but strangely we never hear about that?
It's not just a London thing either. I watched an incident in Stockholm last night where a Southbound train had to be withdrawn from service due to a defect, causing a 20+ minute delay. Extactly the same arrangement took place, with the first train through being extended to fill the gap then reversed on its next trip north to ensure it returned south right time. Similarly, other trains were short-tripped on their nouthbound journeys in order to bring them back north at the right time. In a number of the cases the destination was only changed at the last minute, but the overall effect was to adjust the service for the requirements of the majority, not the most vocal.
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Post by messiah on Aug 21, 2010 9:13:30 GMT
I was thinking DLR to Bank Central to Holborn Pic to Heathrow Diana, how will your posts read when they finally finish upgrading the Jub? Have you considered moving to another area of town where there is future planned upgrade work? Just to keep you busy on this forum I mean... Changing at Bank from DLR to the Central with suitcases would be horrendous. (As changing from the central to anything tends to be there) At Waterloo there is a long interchange but the passages are generally wide, there is the travelator and there is a lift at the jubilee end (but not the bakerloo end IIRC)
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Chris M
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Post by Chris M on Aug 21, 2010 10:12:16 GMT
Central to Picc at Holborn is also not a good interchange with suitcases. Normally I'd suggest changing at to the District at Mile End and then the Picc at Barons Court or Hammersmith to take advantage of the cross-platform interchanges.
Hardly the most direct, but the easiest today I think would be DLR to Canning Town (lift), Jubilee to Stratford (two lifts), Central to Ealing Broadway (level access), District to Acton Town (two lifts), Picc to Heathrow (lift).
Alternatively, there is DLR to Canning Town, Jubilee to Waterloo, SWT to Wimbledon, District to Earls' Court and Picc to Heathrow, all without steps or escalators, but still hardly direct.
Quicker but more expensive would be to take the Jubilee to Waterloo (lift + short flight of stairs), Bakerloo to Paddington (escalator + escalator, stairs or lift), then Heathrow Express or Connect to the Airport (there is certainly step-free access at T5, and I think at the other terminals as well).
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 13:49:07 GMT
We're back; goodness me, isn't London cold and into Autumn after just a week. Mr Diana is going to have to go up into the attic for the winter coats today. Thank you boys for your views, which unfortunately have turned poor Mr. MRFS42's initial question about train operation into a long set of travel advice.
Well done those who actually started to think that we might have heavy luggage as we were going to Heathrow; this sort of practicality seems to evade those whose experience of the Underground seems confined to doing the Tube Challenge rather than actually using it for the day-to-day life of Londoners, which is what the bulk of the customers need it for.
We dragged our suitcases on the outward journey through those overlong passages at Waterloo, and negotiated Piccadilly Circus. We needed to change at Acton Town as well, where we noticed, not for the first time, that the platform indicators on the Heathrow route have never been updated to the current style, on just the very route where you would think they were required, and this led to getting into a conversation, ostensibly in Diana’s Best German, with a couple of bewildered Austrians who could make no sense of which platform at Acton any train to Terminal 4 departed from.
By the time we got to Heathrow our arms felt they had pushed the train all the way there, and so it was Cognacs all round, and then off northwards and eastwards to the city of my dreams (well, that is what you lot seem to think), where the Metro always runs as advertised - although some here just can’t believe this. There’s even a new Metro line, we now have five, first big investment for many years. Not that I went on the new one. Family picked us up at the airport, but we travelled round the city a lot. I’ll just let you guess how much of the system was working last Sunday. And this one ......
On our return we stupidly had not enquired about what was working and what was not in London over the holiday weekend. Never mind, British Airways kindly gave me a right-hand window seat and arranged a sightseeing tour coming over Hampstead and then right over Canning Town before turning for Heathrow. And there, looking down, was a Jubilee train's lights leaving southwards towards the tunnel, so things looked good. Alas we later found this was something like a mirage in the desert (more likely a test train of some sort, though still with all the lights switched on), and there was no Jubilee Line. So drag along. At Victoria the District Line driver announces “Due to the investment programme ... bla ... bla ... no Victoria Line”, and we are invaded by many perplexed tourists who we end up giving advice to yet again. Couple of stops further on at Westminster and it’s “Due to the investment programme ... bla ... bla ... no Jubilee Line”. We discuss how much the introduction style of these sounds like the messages from the “Leader Of Our Glorious Wonderful Republic” we used to get in the old days back home.
Mr D has informed me, very sensibly, that this is the last time we do Heathrow at a weekend with suitcases (don't forget that he gets the heaviest one) on the Underground. It is just beyond us, and this is from two regulars down at the gym. It's either taxi both ways or the Heathrow car parks from now on.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 30, 2010 18:01:00 GMT
A taxi from Canning Town-ish all the way to Heathrow? I'm getting more and more convinced that I'm the only person on this forum that has never been troubled by weekend works! Perhaps I'm just a tight-wad, but it's either tube or walk for me in London!
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 30, 2010 20:08:34 GMT
Whilst I do have a 24 hour bus link to Heathrow, it is erratic enough during the daytime, so there's no way I'd use it to get to Heathrow for an early morning flight. Likewise a cab requires some contingency time in case it's late, so the car, parking at Heathrow is always my method of choice on an early check-in.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 20:16:00 GMT
A taxi from Canning Town-ish all the way to Heathrow? A bit further out than Canning Town, actually. It is the prime business for the local mini-cab companies round here, about £45 each way actually, and that is for a carload rather than each, so where there is a family of you it becomes more worthwhile. Some years ago they mostly had clapped-out Nissans, but many now have reasonable Mercedes etc, so the business is there for them. I think a black cab would charge about 3 times that, but that would indeed be madness.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 21:08:22 GMT
A taxi from Canning Town-ish all the way to Heathrow? A bit further out than Canning Town, actually. It is the prime business for the local mini-cab companies round here, about £45 each way actually, and that is for a carload rather than each, so where there is a family of you it becomes more worthwhile. Some years ago they mostly had clapped-out Nissans, but many now have reasonable Mercedes etc, so the business is there for them. I think a black cab would charge about 3 times that, but that would indeed be madness. The driving standard is still pretty appalling bar the odd decent one!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 21:19:45 GMT
We needed to change at Acton Town as well, where we noticed, not for the first time, that the platform indicators on the Heathrow route have never been updated to the current style, on just the very route where you would think they were required, and this led to getting into a conversation, ostensibly in Diana’s Best German, with a couple of bewildered Austrians who could make no sense of which platform at Acton any train to Terminal 4 departed from. Is it my imagination or is there the following platform pattern at Acton Town: Trains to Northfields and Heathrow Terminals 4 & 123: platform 1 Trains to Uxbridge/Rayners Lane and Heathrow Terminals 123 & 5: platform 2? A taxi from Canning Town-ish all the way to Heathrow? A bit further out than Canning Town, actually. It is the prime business for the local mini-cab companies round here, about £45 each way actually, and that is for a carload rather than each, so where there is a family of you it becomes more worthwhile. Some years ago they mostly had clapped-out Nissans, but many now have reasonable Mercedes etc, so the business is there for them. I think a black cab would charge about 3 times that, but that would indeed be madness. In front of me, I have the "Passenger fare guide" for taxis (valid from April 2010). "The journey time between Central London and Heathrow is 30-60 minutes. Fares are £45-£75 at all times...Drivers can add: Up to £2 for telephone bookings £2.40 for journeys starting at Heathrow A soilage charge of up to £40 if the taxi has to be taken out of service for cleaning. Whether or not Canning Town is classed as "Central London" for the purposes of the guide, I don't know.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 30, 2010 22:02:03 GMT
There is no hard and fast Acton platforming, except that most Northfields train run via the westbound local line. There are of course others that are booked via the local platform too.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 31, 2010 4:36:42 GMT
At least its not like you have to negotiate a lift or staires if it doesn't leave from the platform youre on, it'll just leave from the other side of the island at Acton.
I was wondering the other day if maximising and future proofing tube stations is a false ecconomy, the reasoning being that as everything needs to be shut down occasionally, having two lines Victoria style provides backup, network resiliance and better convienience generally than having just one JLE style line. If two spartan and basic extensions could be made for the price of one architects concept of an extension, then functionally there are more advantages...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 31, 2010 15:00:26 GMT
Well done those who actually started to think that we might have heavy luggage as we were going to Heathrow; this sort of practicality seems to evade those whose experience of the Underground seems confined to doing the Tube Challenge rather than actually using it for the day-to-day life of Londoners, which is what the bulk of the customers need it for. I would have thought that luggage would be a pain regardless of which tube line was available. We dragged our suitcases on the outward journey through those overlong passages at Waterloo, and negotiated Piccadilly Circus. We needed to change at Acton Town as well, where we noticed, not for the first time, that the platform indicators on the Heathrow route have never been updated to the current style, on just the very route where you would think they were required, and this led to getting into a conversation, ostensibly in Diana’s Best German, with a couple of bewildered Austrians who could make no sense of which platform at Acton any train to Terminal 4 departed from. I don't really understand what you mean: both Westbound platforms are on the same island. I can't say I find it that confusing. On our return we stupidly had not enquired about what was working and what was not in London over the holiday weekend. Never mind, British Airways kindly gave me a right-hand window seat and arranged a sightseeing tour coming over Hampstead and then right over Canning Town before turning for Heathrow. And there, looking down, was a Jubilee train's lights leaving southwards towards the tunnel, so things looked good. Alas we later found this was something like a mirage in the desert (more likely a test train of some sort, though still with all the lights switched on), and there was no Jubilee Line. So drag along. At Victoria the District Line driver announces “Due to the investment programme ... bla ... bla ... no Victoria Line”, and we are invaded by many perplexed tourists who we end up giving advice to yet again. Couple of stops further on at Westminster and it’s “Due to the investment programme ... bla ... bla ... no Jubilee Line”. We discuss how much the introduction style of these sounds like the messages from the “Leader Of Our Glorious Wonderful Republic” we used to get in the old days back home. It does genuinely surprise me that a regular user of this forum wouldn't have checked this out beforehand. Also, you know full well why we've got the situation we have now, as it's been explained by more patient users of this forum many times to you. It's irritating, certainly, but comparing it with totally different metros in different countries seems pointless to me. A more cynical person than myself might think you didn't check deliberately, so you could complain on here afterwards Mr D has informed me, very sensibly, that this is the last time we do Heathrow at a weekend with suitcases (don't forget that he gets the heaviest one) on the Underground. It is just beyond us, and this is from two regulars down at the gym. It's either taxi both ways or the Heathrow car parks from now on. Yes, I expect he did say that. It would make me think twice when the tube has normal service, let alone at weekends, when you can safely assume that there's engineering works somewhere on the network!
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