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Post by harlesden on Aug 1, 2010 19:31:09 GMT
Referring to Clapham North, Clapham Common and the original Angel. Tracks both sides of a single narrow platform. Quite scary at busy periods with the platform packed full of passengers. Was this specific design exclusive to the Northern Line? Surely a makeover for Clapham North and Clapham Common is well overdue. However, the station pictured below is actually less than 20 years old.  |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2010 19:43:35 GMT
Those stations were designed as such in the 1900 C&SLR extensions to Clapham Common and Angel. This was when the King William Street station was closed and the new running tunnels from Borough to London Bridge were brought into use.
I suppose the reason it was done being that it was a single bore rather than a pair of bores and did away with the need for lots of other tunnels. The C&SLR was strapped for cash at the time - possibly it was cheaper? It would make sense.
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Post by ruislip on Aug 1, 2010 20:13:51 GMT
However, the station pictured below is actually less than 20 years old. That looks like either a station in Atlanta or Washington DC. |
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Post by harlesden on Aug 1, 2010 20:39:22 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2010 21:30:48 GMT
The clapham's aren't really busy enough to warrant modernisation, The Angel had to be refurbished because more and more people were using the station. And then theres the matter of cost in this day and age aswell...
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2010 22:51:38 GMT
and it probably helped to keep the railway under the public street so not incurring compensation to landlords under which a bigger station may have to have been built
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slugabed
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Post by slugabed on Aug 2, 2010 7:59:55 GMT
Wasn't Euston (S/B,City Branch) also like this until rebuilt to accept the Victoria Lne in the mid-60s?
Certainly the tunnel there today is extremely,er,generous....
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 8:16:43 GMT
Yes, Euston station on the City branch had an island platform in one big tunnel until the Vic came along. It scared me considerably as a child, coming down in the middle of this large open space underground. So most of the time I used Euston West End branch and changed at Camden Town if necessary.
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 2, 2010 9:25:59 GMT
And then theres the matter of cost in this day and age aswell... Cost has been an issue throughout history; it's not a new thing. |
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Post by compsci on Aug 2, 2010 11:10:30 GMT
There was at least some evidence when I was in Barcelona recently that they have converted some stations that previously had only a narrow central island by adding two side platforms. This has the somewhat odd result of the doors opening on both sides.
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Post by harlesden on Aug 2, 2010 11:24:05 GMT
The only time I see doors open on both sides on an LUL train is when I pass through Queens Park shed on a through Bakerloo. Perhaps the Bakerloo is unique in that way - train in service passing through a shed.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 2, 2010 16:38:57 GMT
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Post by t697 on Aug 2, 2010 19:55:57 GMT
The only time I see doors open on both sides on an LUL train is when I pass through Queens Park shed on a through Bakerloo. Perhaps the Bakerloo is unique in that way - train in service passing through a shed. They open both sides in passenger service at Barking EB on to platforms 2 and 3. They can also open both sides at the middle road at Uxbridge, Cockfosters and (ISTR) Morden. Not always or even usually done there, but there is CSDE both sides enabled at Uxbridge, at least for S stock when it gets there! I think the service passing through the shed is a QP special though. |
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 2, 2010 20:49:29 GMT
Perhaps the Bakerloo is unique in that way - train in service passing through a shed. "There is nowhere quite like London Underground" |
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Post by 21146 on Aug 2, 2010 21:22:23 GMT
The only time I see doors open on both sides on an LUL train is when I pass through Queens Park shed on a through Bakerloo. Perhaps the Bakerloo is unique in that way - train in service passing through a shed. They open both sides in passenger service at Barking EB on to platforms 2 and 3. They can also open both sides at the middle road at Uxbridge, Cockfosters and (ISTR) Morden. Not always or even usually done there, but there is CSDE both sides enabled at Uxbridge, at least for S stock when it gets there! I think the service passing through the shed is a QP special though. Arnos Grove, Loughton and White City could all have train doors opened both sides in the middle roads, though I'm not sure if current CSDE/ATO/PAC systems allow for this in normal service. |
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Post by andypurk on Aug 2, 2010 21:56:49 GMT
The clapham's aren't really busy enough to warrant modernisation, The Angel had to be refurbished because more and more people were using the station. And then theres the matter of cost in this day and age aswell... Although the Clapham stations (especially Clapham North which I used to use) may not be extremely busy, they do suffer from severe overcrowding during the morning peak, as the trains are already full by the time they reach the platform. The planned increase in the frequency of the trains may help in the medium term. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2010 13:46:16 GMT
CSDE will allow it at Arnos Grove, but unless a train is reversing - as in the picture linked above - there's no point in doing it! Anyone wanting to go east will be on the eastbound platform, and the eastbound platform stairs are marginally closer to the exit of the station anyway.
For reversing, the train will come in, open the doors on the eastbound platform (so hopefully people will get out the correct side for the next eastbound!) and a few moments later open the doors to the westbound platform. The eastbound doors are left open for a while to allow the cleaners in to sweep the train free of newspapers. Sometimes they are closed a short while before departure, sometimes immediately before - tends to depend on the driver, whether it's been a quick turnaround or a longer one, whether the cleaners are already done or not and so on.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 3, 2010 15:01:13 GMT
They open both sides in passenger service at Barking EB on to platforms 2 and 3. They can also open both sides at the middle road at Uxbridge, Cockfosters and (ISTR) Morden. Not always or even usually done there, but there is CSDE both sides enabled at Uxbridge, at least for S stock when it gets there! I think the service passing through the shed is a QP special though. Arnos Grove, Loughton and White City could all have train doors opened both sides in the middle roads, though I'm not sure if current CSDE/ATO/PAC systems allow for this in normal service. On the CSDE point it is a simple matter to alter the enable mode between nearside, offside and bothside door opening taking a trained and licensed technician a few minutes to make the necessary alteration and then check the signal levels with the trackside equipment test set during engineering hours. This happens more often that one might imagine as CSDE is very much fixed i.e. platforms tend to be static and don't change 'hand'! An example being the relocation of 6 car stop marks from one end of a platform to another for operational reasons but there are other possibilities arising from station modernisation/ reconstruction or possible wrong road use of a platform for an extended period etc. Generally both side door enable would be set up at places such as Arnos Grove, Golders Green and White City where trains might travel in either direction. CSDE is an auxilliary safety system to protect passengers from falling onto the track, so with operational platforms on both sides of a train opening the doors on either side of the train cannot be regarded as unsafe. |
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Post by su31 on Aug 8, 2010 21:47:11 GMT
The clapham's aren't really busy enough to warrant modernisation, The Angel had to be refurbished because more and more people were using the station. And then theres the matter of cost in this day and age aswell... There is an explanation and some before and after photos on www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/LUgenPhots/ Richard Griffin's excellent web site. |
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Post by North End on Aug 9, 2010 7:08:10 GMT
The clapham's aren't really busy enough to warrant modernisation, The Angel had to be refurbished because more and more people were using the station. And then theres the matter of cost in this day and age aswell... There is an explanation and some before and after photos on www.squarewheels.org.uk/rly/LUgenPhots/ Richard Griffin's excellent web site. The Clapham stations are relics of the C&SLR where all their terminus stations had the same arrangement, though Clapham North is the exception to this as it was as far as I know never intended as a terminus. Both stations are very busy in the peaks, and a nightmare if a packed train has to be tipped out, but they are nowhere near as busy as Angel and Euston. London Bridge was a different case as the new central concourse was to relieve overcrowding in the constricted layout of passageways leading to the platforms. A small fragment of the original 1900 southbound platform remains at the north end complete with 1920s tiling, roundels and posters, there's also a disused floodgate and a few feet of the original southbound running tunnel. At the south end most of the former crossover and running tunnel now house various equipment rooms, but there's a good 75m section of the original s/b tunnel still unchanged complete with track. I think Bank has overtaken the Claphams as a priority for rebuilding, and there are serious proposals for a diversion tunnel and new Northern Line platform here. As for doors opening on both sides, don't forget Morden, and Golders Green, though operating instructions at GG tend to favour only opening the doors on one side here. |
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