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Post by deadmans on Aug 8, 2010 18:30:52 GMT
[/quote]The production trains are fully fitted out for passenger service and are essentially good to go once delivered.[/quote]
Really?
A very BOLD STATEMENT. Given the build quality on display so far...
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Post by Tomcakes on Aug 8, 2010 18:48:43 GMT
Really? A very BOLD STATEMENT. Given the build quality on display so far... Deadmans, you make me look like an optimist.
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 9, 2010 3:50:50 GMT
Well you couldn't get affectionate on an 'S' regardless of orientation; the whole train would see and hear you!
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 13:28:31 GMT
Well you couldn't get affectionate on an 'S' regardless of orientation; the whole train would see and hear you! Some people are in to that sort of thing... (both participation and observation...) sorry, I'll hide in my corner again now... :)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 9, 2010 14:46:23 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early?
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 9, 2010 15:18:45 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? I'm sure someone who knows more will come along, but yes, that's the whole point. You can't just throw it into service and hope for the best, it's all got to be thoroughly tested through various branches, and eventually the entire line before passenger service, and it has to run empty (as in the test trains) before it's allowed into service. AIUI it's cleared for the areas it's running, anything else is a bonus, and trials will take place, and are probably ongoing. If an area is clear, the data is fed back and the trains are adapted to everything they are missing.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Aug 9, 2010 16:16:00 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? You have to remember that there's a lot of change involved. For starters not all of the Met's drivers are trained yet - in fact the number done so so far is quite small. Then there's the train technicians - they all have to be trained and brought up to speed, and they'll be going through a steep learning curve not only because the S's and A's are very different but as the S's enter service they'll no doubt develop defects etc which may well be a whole new ball game for them. All of this training has to be managed so that those who go through it first don't have too long in which to forget it all before applying it; equally you cannot just go full steam ahead without everybody being trained and up to speed. Station staff will also need to be briefed with regard to detraining methods and service control staff need to know certain things too. Then there's the infrastructure; things like platforms, buffers, signals, and the track. They all need to be adjusted and there has been the odd bit of slippage on that front here and there. This is a massive project and is far more complicated than simply plonking a new train on the track and off it goes. It has got to be managed in stages otherwise it just wouldn't happen.
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Post by tubeprune on Aug 9, 2010 18:26:10 GMT
Wembley Park - Watford is the obvious choice: Easy access to and from Neasden depot; the Watford line is self-contained; no other service uses it; if a train sits down they can still use the fast; a round trip is not too long; they could leave it in a siding at Watford if necessary. Meercats would think it was simple!
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Post by ruislip on Aug 9, 2010 20:54:07 GMT
the Watford line is self-contained; no other service uses it Right; there's no competition with the Piccadilly or Chiltern services.
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Post by superteacher on Aug 9, 2010 22:44:12 GMT
To be fair, it's only because the Met has these options that it's been allowed to run as much as it has already. When the 09 stock on the Vic was introduced, there was no choice but to send it out on the main Vic line (there are no quiet branches), hence the anti social times that the train initially ran at.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 10, 2010 9:15:49 GMT
I got excited when seeing a S stock with the adverts on the windows this morning at Neasden (again). I noticed a few curious looks from other passengers as well!
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Post by citysig on Aug 10, 2010 20:11:07 GMT
Wembley Park - Watford is the obvious choice: Easy access to and from Neasden depot; the Watford line is self-contained; no other service uses it; if a train sits down they can still use the fast; a round trip is not too long; they could leave it in a siding at Watford if necessary. Meercats would think it was simple! Kind of what I said here but have still to have confirmed if this thinking was ever employed in the decision, or if it was more by luck / coincidence than judgement. Of course, now it's publically on here, the people concerned will no doubt say it was always meant to be that way ;D ;D The lack of anyone shoving any official paperwork my way to prove it was meant to happen is a little disturbing and goes along way to proving my latter theory.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 8:54:56 GMT
Does any have times for S stock in passenger service? I see the original post siad its 10:31 + 12:50 from Wembley Park, I was wondering if this is still the case, and if there was any later trips?
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Post by citysig on Aug 15, 2010 11:56:20 GMT
As has been said many times in the S-stock threads, the timings of the test trips are not being made common knowledge. There are a few timetabled trips each day, but not all trips are run, and sometimes trips which are "usually" passenger may not be in service on a particular day. It's very much wait around and you may be lucky... or not as the case may be.
If we published the trips, and for some reason the ongoing testing required a train to run empty, then (as has already happened a few times) there would be complaints to station staff.
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Post by deadmans on Aug 15, 2010 15:57:27 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? SPOT ON. Also worth pointing out, that LUL have not accepted the first series train. Putting it into service as a gimmick is one thing, signing for it and saying as it perfect without any flaws, and worth millions on pounds is another matter.....
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Post by 21146 on Aug 15, 2010 16:29:09 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? SPOT ON. Also worth pointing out, that LUL have not accepted the first series train. Putting it into service as a gimmick is one thing, signing for it and saying as it perfect without any flaws, and worth millions on pounds is another matter..... Wasn't passenger service before August '10 a target to be met? And was...
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Post by 21146 on Aug 15, 2010 16:35:40 GMT
What is the white spot next to the m-door car number for? I would assume de-icing but being block trains shouldn't this be on both ends?
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Post by citysig on Aug 15, 2010 17:19:33 GMT
Wasn't passenger service before August '10 a target to be met? And was... Internally, but if I recall the general public were told "Summer 2010" which if taken by the calendar is July/August but if taken by the weather was March/April ;D
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Post by Chris M on Aug 15, 2010 17:29:11 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? SPOT ON. Also worth pointing out, that LUL have not accepted the first series train. Putting it into service as a gimmick is one thing, signing for it and saying as it perfect without any flaws, and worth millions on pounds is another matter..... I don't see it as a gimmick at all. Running the train in passenger service is all part of the necessary testing regime - you cannot test how a train will behave in passenger service without running it in passenger service. You can simulate all you like, and that will form the basis, but ultimately humans are neither rational creatures not completely predictable. This is also, I suspect, part of the reason for not advertising specific times it will run (in addition to those already mentioned). If it turns up as a normal service train then then the vast majority of the passengers on board it will treat it as they would any other service train. This is exactly how it will be for >99.9% of its working life, and so these are the passenger behaviours that LU want to get experience of. When you have a train full of enthusiasts who have waited specifically for that the train, the behaviours they exhibit will not be anywhere near as useful as the ones they want and need to complete the testing.
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SE13
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Post by SE13 on Aug 15, 2010 18:21:51 GMT
Given that train can't operate the whole line yet, was there any purpose in introducing it yet other than maybe the political advantage of seeing the train in action early? SPOT ON. Also worth pointing out, that LUL have not accepted the first series train. Putting it into service as a gimmick is one thing, signing for it and saying as it perfect without any flaws, and worth millions on pounds is another matter..... But nobody has said that What has been said is that it'll gradually introduced, and that's exactly what's happening. What has been said is that certain areas of the line have been tested, and those areas are clear for service, and that's exactly what's happening. How is it a gimmick? How are they wasting millions of pounds?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 15, 2010 19:09:33 GMT
I would regard the publicised runs on August 2nd - the 'new air conditioned train now in service' - as a bit of a gimmick: in many ways more a photo opportunity for Boris, than being in proper public service, which I would say will be when MetControl and colleagues (i.e. the operators) can direct its use, as just another train in place of an A-stock.
I think a better way of regarding what it's doing now (AIUI) is Beta testing - exposing it to real passengers...
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Post by citysig on Aug 15, 2010 19:35:39 GMT
I wouldn't worry too much about deadmans opinions of things. After all we all remember the recent: You have to laugh at those first train geeks. It's not a gimmick. Yes of course there was a bit of a "rush" to get that train in service on the date they did - but it's not as if the stock hadn't ever run before. The stock has been out and about being tested for months now, and in recent weeks it started daytime, more visible testing. And the only reason that was able to happen is because this train is the future, and will become a reality and is trusted enough at this point to run amongst the normal service. There will be teething problems. There will be changes that are required. Then once everything is in place to the company's satisfaction, the signing off fully will take place. Whilst July 31st / August 2nd could be seen as political moves, it also gave the development team a chance to put their cards on the table. And I think on the whole it was proved they held a fairly decent hand.
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