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Post by metuser on Jun 23, 2010 20:20:41 GMT
I heard an announcement in the station saying something like all Amersham trains will call on platform 1 at Harrow on the Hill till further notice. And guess what? I got off an Amersham met line train just at that time and it called on Platform 3. I wonder what's happening.
I know some fast met line trains do call on platform 1 at peak times especially between 5pm to 5:30 pm and I never understood why this is the case. I suppose platforms 3 and 4 are rather busy at peak times with Watford and Uxbridge trains but why use platform 1 only at the beginning of the peak and not later?
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 23, 2010 21:11:09 GMT
I think you'll find it is linked to the 'hot weather operations' order.
Therefore to avoid having to use Harrow North Junction to cross over from down local to down fast. You may also find that Fast Baker Street trains are using the Up local line from Moor Park.
There is a thread that details this well.
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Post by citysig on Jun 23, 2010 22:11:24 GMT
Indeed it was the "hot weather plan" together with several sets of points that became defective as the day went on in the Harrow area. I am sure the same will be in operation tomorrow, as temperatures soar to the dizzy heights of the mid-70s Let's hope we don't get a return of a proper summer with temperatures far in excess of this ;D If you were on an Amersham train calling at Harrow platform 3, you were probably on a handful of the ones diverted via the northbound local lines - to prevent conflict with non-stop Chiltern trains. There was some late-running this evening, and to prevent knocking the Chilterns (which is a big no no) our trains are sent "fast via the local."
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2010 1:38:25 GMT
I was on a Fast Baker Street recently and at Ricky the driver announced 'This is a Fast Baker Street train, this train will call at Moor Park, then Harrow on the Hill'.
We were diverted down the slow line, and the driver called at all stations. Was this a mistake on the driver's part (not realising it was meant to be a fast on the slow lines) or was the running changed at short notice?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2010 6:10:00 GMT
I was on a Fast Baker Street recently and at Ricky the driver announced 'This is a Fast Baker Street train, this train will call at Moor Park, then Harrow on the Hill'. We were diverted down the slow line, and the driver called at all stations. Was this a mistake on the driver's part (not realising it was meant to be a fast on the slow lines) or was the running changed at short notice? When diverted onto the local line, it is usually the case more often than not, that the fast train will be running almost directly behind an all stations service. Most T/Ops realise this when they cross onto the local line and come up against red signals, they then usually call and ask if it's okay to run all stations to Harrow then pick up their booked working. No mistake on the T/Ops part, just them making a good common sense decision.
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Post by 21146 on Jun 24, 2010 10:47:01 GMT
I was on a Fast Baker Street recently and at Ricky the driver announced 'This is a Fast Baker Street train, this train will call at Moor Park, then Harrow on the Hill'. We were diverted down the slow line, and the driver called at all stations. Was this a mistake on the driver's part (not realising it was meant to be a fast on the slow lines) or was the running changed at short notice? On Tuesday I was on a S/B Amersham train, we were diverted onto the Local Lines at Watford South Junction then ran non-stop from Moor Park to Harrow-on-the-Hill. I presume this was "hot weather working" to avoid using certain points at the latter. Perhaps one day we'll have points that can operate in the full range of UK climatic conditions?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2010 13:49:46 GMT
I was on a Fast Baker Street recently and at Ricky the driver announced 'This is a Fast Baker Street train, this train will call at Moor Park, then Harrow on the Hill'. We were diverted down the slow line, and the driver called at all stations. Was this a mistake on the driver's part (not realising it was meant to be a fast on the slow lines) or was the running changed at short notice? On Tuesday I was on a S/B Amersham train, we were diverted onto the Local Lines at Watford South Junction then ran non-stop from Moor Park to Harrow-on-the-Hill. I presume this was "hot weather working" to avoid using certain points at the latter. Perhaps one day we'll have points that can operate in the full range of UK climatic conditions? Yeah this has happened to me at least ten times this year and about the same number of times last year, it's funny when you're near the front of the train and people on the slow platforms stand up to get on the train, but then look confused when it shoots past at 50mph
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Post by citysig on Jun 24, 2010 21:11:25 GMT
Perhaps one day we'll have points that can operate in the full range of UK climatic conditions? We do - at Watford South Junction, which is why the crossing-over of trains is centred on that location rather than Harrow. Now we would install new pointwork at Harrow, but 2 things spring to mind. A lack of investment and also the moaning that would be heard - especially on here - that we're shutting down the railway again ;D
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North End
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Post by North End on Jun 24, 2010 21:36:42 GMT
Perhaps one day we'll have points that can operate in the full range of UK climatic conditions? We do - at Watford South Junction, which is why the crossing-over of trains is centred on that location rather than Harrow. Now we would install new pointwork at Harrow, but 2 things spring to mind. A lack of investment and also the moaning that would be heard - especially on here - that we're shutting down the railway again ;D Just as long as we don't install a particular design of pointwork which regularly fails, particularly in hot weather. The words Edgware and Surelock spring to mind for some reason..
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Post by metuser on Jun 25, 2010 20:47:25 GMT
Aren't there enough closures on the met line in the coming 5 or 6 years to permit installation of new pointwork? this is probably a stupid assumption given that I am not exactly sure how a point works except the fact it is used to move a train from one set of rails to the other.
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Post by harlesden on Jun 25, 2010 21:01:47 GMT
Maybe some kind soul can point to a thread where the actual working of points is discussed, and the different kinds of points.
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Post by citysig on Jun 25, 2010 22:57:11 GMT
Aren't there enough closures on the met line in the coming 5 or 6 years to permit installation of new pointwork? this is probably a stupid assumption given that I am not exactly sure how a point works except the fact it is used to move a train from one set of rails to the other. Leaving aside the fact that works are planned months (sometimes over a year) in advance... To replace a set of points, you will need to close the line on which the points are located. Ideally you will also need to close the line adjacent the points to allow the worksite a means of transporting equipment and materials to the area being worked on. Then you need to identify safe protection arrangements (including prevention of trains entering the area, and traction current isolations) for the worksite. All this needs to be planned (together with movements of engineers train to/from site) around any other works that may be ongoing that weekend. It's no good, for instance, shutting the Harrow area down when trains for a track replacement at Wembley need to pass through the area. Despite what it may seem, generally these days there is a lot of work which takes advantage of larger closures. I recall reading a possession plan a couple of months ago, which detailed no less than 4 quite major worksites within an overall possession, with work ranging from track replacement to drainage renewal to relaying of cables. Of course, one major factor in everything is money and whether the replacement of the points can be justified. The "Hot Weather Plan" rarely causes actual service delays - apart from the odd fast train not being as fast as it normally is - but then we are a passenger carrying railway and maybe "additional" passenger trains calling at local line stations rather than zooming past should be welcomed. Probably a bit frustrating for those who thought they would be speeding down to Harrow, but a bonus for the person who just misses the actual local service.
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 26, 2010 0:06:38 GMT
Yes, and considering the fast now seems to wait at Harrow the time will be made up.
Perhaps it's worth mentioning (again) the special nature of the diamond crossing used on the Met line. The moveable angles allow trains to cross at faster speeds.
When these are replaces will express style crossing be emplyed or will new crossings with moveable angles be use (I suspect the former!).
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Post by citysig on Jun 26, 2010 10:15:09 GMT
Somewhere in the piles of projects "put on hold" through the cost-cutting, Harrow North Junction was due to be replaced in the same way as Watford South Junction was - with pretty similar pointwork. The junction was also to move slightly further north (round the bend and onto the straighter track near North Harrow station).
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metman
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Post by metman on Jun 27, 2010 8:37:56 GMT
...so up local trains would be waiting in North Harrow rather than at JB72?
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 27, 2010 8:46:23 GMT
Everything got shifted back but I don't remember where JB72 ended up. I'll have a look at work for the plans - they still exist somewhere.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2010 11:27:11 GMT
Do swing nose crossings have the same deficiencies as movable angles? If they don't, then the pointwork at Harrow North Junction could be replaced with pointwork that contains swing nose crossings, allowing for very high crossing speeds from line to line.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Jun 27, 2010 16:23:30 GMT
Switch diamonds are used either when the train speeds are high or the crossing angle is very shallow. Swing noses are used for a different reason.
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