cso
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by cso on Jun 23, 2010 9:20:45 GMT
Was on a met line train from HOTH to Uxbridge last night, which was being delayed due to a signal failure at Eastcote (not the best night to be stuck - VERY warm!).
Fair play to the driver who did a most excellent job of keeping us informed of what was going on (can't remember the train or car number or I'd have written to TFL complimenting him!).
Anyway, to the point of the question....
On being ready to depart Eastcote, the driver said we were going to do a "routine procedure on departure. There may be a slight jolt, and then a slow running train." We promptly set off, when about 10 yards and then there was a jolt. A minute or so later, on we went.
I presume this was the driver passing a red signal with authorization and the trip cock (?) cutting in to stop the train?
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,347
|
Post by Colin on Jun 23, 2010 9:55:22 GMT
You presume correctly
|
|
|
Post by harlesden on Jun 23, 2010 10:09:05 GMT
Talking of slight jolts, if I may, what causes a train leaving a station in tunnel to immediately jolt to a stop as he begins moving, and then begin moving again slightly hesitantly. Noticed this mostly on the Bakerloo Line simply because it is the line I use most frequently
|
|
Colin
Advisor
My preserved fire engine!
Posts: 11,347
|
Post by Colin on Jun 23, 2010 10:16:54 GMT
You should start a new thread if it's a new question, otherwise we end with a 'thread drift' that ends up discussing something entirely different from the original question and thread title....but I might as well answer your question whilst I'm here....
What you've experienced on the Bakerloo is the driver loosing his pilot light (doors closed indication); this causes the motors to drop out and the jolt you feel. When the pilot light comes back, the driver will attempt to motor again.
The 72ts on the Bakerloo tend to suffer from poor door interlocks which is why it's more common there than on other lines.
|
|
cso
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by cso on Jun 23, 2010 11:13:43 GMT
Cool thanks Colin Probably shouldn't ask this here but... Does the bit about 72ts on the Bakerloo apply to Central Line trains too?
|
|
|
Post by chunkytfg on Jun 23, 2010 12:22:31 GMT
FWIW and for anyone interested the fault was a Track circuit failing due to a defective tuning unit
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 23, 2010 12:36:56 GMT
FWIW and for anyone interested the fault was a Track circuit failing due to a defective tuning unit We seem to have a lot of tuning unit and position detector related failures lately. I think it's about time we invested in some that last longer than a few months! ;D ;D
|
|
cso
Posts: 1,043
|
Post by cso on Jun 23, 2010 13:06:56 GMT
I know a piano tuner if that helps? Bad jokes aside, what's a tuning unit then for those of us not in the know
|
|
|
Post by chunkytfg on Jun 23, 2010 13:42:43 GMT
The problem with PD faults i've not had much to do with as I have not many go wrong in my area and for the record the Tuning unit that went wrong was do do with it being old and very hot. The uxbridge line has has JTC tracks for many years that is effectively the pre FS2550 Stuff.
As for what a tuning unit it. Well it's a component that makes up a Track circuit on Jointless track circuits. It's basically a 12'' square box that sits under the negative traction rail at the end limits of the track circuit. How it works though if i'm being totally honest I have not got a clue I just know how to test them to find out if they are failing!! lol
|
|
metman
Global Moderator
5056 05/12/1961-23/04/2012 RIP
Posts: 7,421
|
Post by metman on Jun 23, 2010 18:21:53 GMT
I remember a signal failure years ago on that section of track, but it was near Ruislip Manor. I was on a 73 stock train, and of course the same procedure was conducted. What really struck me was the slow speed of the train. It was not that the train was going too slow, but that it really struggled to stay at a crawl. The A stock is a really good crawler, if required. I don't know what speed the trains are restructed too, but it really seemed the train was trying to get away and the driver kept having to restrain it! Anyone else found this?
|
|
Chris M
Global Moderator
Forum Quizmaster
Always happy to receive quiz ideas and pictures by email or PM
Posts: 19,772
|
Post by Chris M on Jun 23, 2010 19:07:02 GMT
I've only experienced this on a 72 stock, northbound from Oxford Circus a few months ago. I can't say that I noticed any issues with the train trying to get away, indeed I recall it being a smooth ride.
|
|
Tom
Administrator
Signalfel?
Posts: 4,197
|
Post by Tom on Jun 23, 2010 19:23:05 GMT
How it works though if i'm being totally honest I have not got a clue I just know how to test them to find out if they are failing!! lol They consist of a capacitor and transformer set up together with the termination bond to resonate at the track circuit's carrier frequency. This causes the adjacent frequencies to be blocked and matches the impedance of the rails to the cable to or from the SER.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 17:09:18 GMT
OB One has taught you well Tom
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 21:23:27 GMT
The A stock is a really good crawler, if required. I don't know what speed the trains are restructed too, but it really seemed the train was trying to get away and the driver kept having to restrain it! Anyone else found this? Take it this was after the timeout (known as SCAT - Speed Control After Tripping) had expired.....before then the driver has no control to hold speed back, the motors cut out by themselves. As far as I know, all conventional line stock have SCAT.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 21:24:53 GMT
From personal experience on A60 stock the SCAT comes in at about 8mph.
|
|
|
Post by setttt on Jul 1, 2010 21:50:40 GMT
The A stock is a really good crawler, if required. I don't know what speed the trains are restructed too, but it really seemed the train was trying to get away and the driver kept having to restrain it! Anyone else found this? Take it this was after the timeout (known as SCAT - Speed Control After Tripping) had expired.....before then the driver has no control to hold speed back, the motors cut out by themselves. As far as I know, all conventional line stock have SCAT. On A Stock the SCAT prevents the train from exceeding 10mph while the "time delay" is in effect, but it is still the train operator's responsibility to control the train so that this speed isn't reached, otherwise you get a full EP brake application and loss of motors, until speed reduces below 10mph. In any case, after passing a signal at danger the train must be driven at a speed at which it can be stopped short of any obstruction until two consecutive clear signals are passed, and this might be significantly less than 10mph depending on the location and conditions. So while in theory you could let the train limit its own speed by keeping the master controller in a motoring position (or just letting the train coast if going downhill), this would be a) uncomfortable for the passengers and b) potentially unsafe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2010 23:15:24 GMT
On A Stock the SCAT prevents the train from exceeding 10mph while the "time delay" is in effect, but it is still the train operator's responsibility to control the train so that this speed isn't reached, otherwise you get a full EP brake application and loss of motors, until speed reduces below 10mph. In any case, after passing a signal at danger the train must be driven at a speed at which it can be stopped short of any obstruction until two consecutive clear signals are passed, and this might be significantly less than 10mph depending on the location and conditions. So while in theory you could let the train limit its own speed by keeping the master controller in a motoring position (or just letting the train coast if going downhill), this would be a) uncomfortable for the passengers and b) potentially unsafe. Nice one Seth! Before I carry on I'm not a driver but a member of service control staff, I have been in the cab of an A60 while applying the rule and have heard the alarms sound and also the drop in motoring, my learned colleague has explained the process exactly. I've been bought up to speed myself here, my work mind has effectively switched off due to my five day (and rare one, I don't get these all the time!) long weekend! ;D ;D ;D
|
|