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Post by underground16 on May 27, 2010 11:40:47 GMT
Hi all I just wanted to ask if anyone knew any signaling games on the London Underground System as i would like to become a Line Controller on the Underground. If there is no signaling games on the underground is there anything that i can use at home like Traintracker (Which is used for station Staff) where i can watch them... I have tryed using TFL/LUL Departure Board on there website but they are not as good as Traintracker. If there is nothing on the Lodnon Underground like Traintracker is there anything else on another main like track. I do have the whole of the line digram at home but would like to have some sort of signaling game or where i can watch them like Traintracker If anyone has any ideas in what i can use please let me know. Thank you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 11:43:24 GMT
Well making three threads in three separate sections is a great start!
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Post by underground16 on May 27, 2010 11:48:17 GMT
Well i am really do wish to find out what there is out there that i can use at home then when i am just at work.
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SE13
In memoriam
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Post by SE13 on May 27, 2010 12:30:43 GMT
I have moved this one to the correct area, and deleted all your other posts.
All you are going to do by multiple posting is annoy the members, mods and admin alike, so please refrain.
Every thread gets read every day, so I'm sure someone can answer your question, but be a little patient.
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Post by citysig on May 27, 2010 15:03:05 GMT
I just wanted to ask if anyone knew any signaling games on the London Underground System as i would like to become a Line Controller on the Underground. There is just one that I know of. The Simsig team release a simulation of the Waterloo and City Line. Apart from that, there are no other simulations available to the public. LUL as a whole have a policy of not allowing such simulations to be made - except under very rare conditions. As to your career aspirations, I'll come to those in a moment. If there is no signaling games on the underground is there anything that i can use at home like Traintracker (Which is used for station Staff) where i can watch them... I have tryed using TFL/LUL Departure Board on there website but they are not as good as Traintracker. If there is nothing on the Lodnon Underground like Traintracker is there anything else on another main like track. You are referring to "Trackernet" which is not available to members of the public. National Rail use similar programs, but they too are not available to members of the public. Why? Can you imagine everyone being able to see everything we do, and then spending their time pulling apart each and every single decision made. There is also a question of the system's security as well. ...i would like to become a Line Controller on the Underground. There's nothing wrong with wanting to one day become a controller, but you should also be aware that in order to qualify as a controller, you should be able to do the job without being able to see any trains. A log book, pen or pencil, a timetable, a clock and a telephone are the most basic pieces of kit a capable controller should need. Make sure you're also not confusing Controller with signaller. There are some areas of LU where the jobs are very similar, but a much larger proportion is still very much the Controller making the bigger decisions and the signallers carrying them out. It's the signallers who need to see the position of trains more than a controller. There have been people who have walked in off the street and become controllers. However, much as they do the training and do qualify, there is no substitute for experience, and starting off at a slightly lower level would always be recommended by me.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2010 21:50:51 GMT
A couple of signalling/controller type simulations I know of are Train Dispatcher (at www.softrail.com/ - basically American) and Train Director (at www.backerstreet.com/traindir/trdireng.htm - free, basically Italian). AFAIK, neither has LU scenarios (though Train Dispatcher has some NY subway ones), but both have provision for you to write (and contribute) your own, based on wherever you choose (with whatever information you have).
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Jun 1, 2010 15:26:38 GMT
It suprises me that this is so, after all one could make a rough and ready guess of the layout at places such as HOTH and try to model it; as many have. I don't fully see how security issues would apply either; when was the last time someone with bad intentions to London bought a copy of Quail 5 and a drivers line video? Both of which are readily available and, afaia, unmonitored in circulation. The systems easiest vunerability is in its popularity, not its technical infrastructure. How is Sir Humphrey doing these days?
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Post by afarlie on Aug 6, 2010 17:15:04 GMT
It suprises me that this is so, after all one could make a rough and ready guess of the layout at places such as HOTH and try to model it; as many have. I don't fully see how security issues would apply either; when was the last time someone with bad intentions to London bought a copy of Quail 5 and a drivers line video? Both of which are readily available and, afaia, unmonitored in circulation. The systems easiest vunerability is in its popularity, not its technical infrastructure. The layout may be guessable, as might some of the interlocking... However my understanding from past discussions is that a view is held that a detailed simulator of a real signalling location might provide technical insight to those wishing to use the information not for genuine research or analysis purposes, but for the commission of acts that are not in the interests of the integrity and security of that infrastructure... The Simsig developers have respected requests from the rail industry about not covering certain locations BTW.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 7, 2010 0:52:09 GMT
You might like the New York Subway Simulator although you really have to create your own interlocking as a file which you can then take cab rides through. I haven't dabbled with it for years but I liked it from the signalling circuitry viewpoint because once an interlocking has been created all the safety signalling circuits can be printed out! It is certainly not for the complete novice but anyone with some basic understanding of signalling and software should be able to make use of it. You can find it here nxsys.nycsubway.org/
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 7, 2010 1:50:48 GMT
but I liked it from the signalling circuitry viewpoint because once an interlocking has been created all the safety signalling circuits can be printed out! And isn't the american way of showing front/back contacts normally live/dead far better than BS 530 or BS 376? <well, *I* think so, it would help with (N) or (R) WKRs/WKLRs>
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Aug 7, 2010 20:04:36 GMT
The Simsig developers have respected requests from the rail industry about not covering certain locations BTW. AIUI the SimSig team don't model IECC locations because they also sell a product to Network Rail. Giving it away would not be good business sense!
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 7, 2010 22:57:58 GMT
but I liked it from the signalling circuitry viewpoint because once an interlocking has been created all the safety signalling circuits can be printed out! And isn't the american way of showing front/back contacts normally live/dead far better than BS 530 or BS 376? <well, *I* think so, it would help with (N) or (R) WKRs/WKLRs> I think it depends what one is used to. Having originally been a telephone engineer, in my 35 years in telephones, comms, signalling and electrical I have had to read diagrams and drawings to many different standards. The standard used in NXSYS can also be found on some LU drawings, typically the Westinghouse Central Line Tunnel Telephone rack drawings are drawn to the same standard. In the telephone world relays are presumed to be de-energised and are normally drawn as such, sometimes an exception would be a power detection relay drawn with its contacts shown operated. In some subscribers telephone equipment drawings it is usual to show circuit elements with keys operated. In these later cases it is clear that the contacts are in the operated state as the symbols show the moveable springs at a different angle. Also normal contacts can be shown horizontally, vertically, left to right or right to left as well as right side up and upside down, the position of the symbol makes no difference to its state. Of course in traditional signalling the way a contact is drawn can or will determine the general designation of the relay as the various types of relay have front and back contacts drawn differently to make the busy bookwirings more readable and to eliminate doubt where the quality of copy may be poor. For many who have work in related fields the disciplined arrangement of traditional signalling symbols into circuits and the fact that relays are usually shown operated is often quite a headache. The Westinghouse computer generated drawings are in some ways easier to read with nice straight lines and simple up/down arrows but also can make drawings less readable. Personally I find them no better no worse than any others I have perused over the years, just different. To be honest if I had to have a preference it would be for traditional linen strip prints and framed relay room signal selection drawings from the 1940s and 1950s or thereabouts which were very common when I began my LT career. Worst of all for my money are the paper strip prints for the Picc west of Acton Town with their double cut circuitry and mile after mile of coincidence lines going back and forth between the trackside locations, it used to be a nightmare testing out after changing a few pairs of QN1s in the trackside kiosks!
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Aug 7, 2010 23:11:02 GMT
Worst of all for my money are the paper strip prints for the Picc west of Acton Town with their double cut circuitry and mile after mile of coincidence lines going back and forth between the trackside locations, it used to be a nightmare testing out after changing a few pairs of QN1s in the trackside kiosks! I see that and I'll raise you with the Stanmore - Wembley Park CTC circuitry - the original diagram was about 20 feet long. Not big by auto strip standards, but it has the loc. cases and pole routes underneath Oh....... M&GC pole route diagrams are a bit of a nightmare too.
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Tom
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Post by Tom on Aug 7, 2010 23:52:40 GMT
The Westinghouse computer generated drawings are in some ways easier to read with nice straight lines and simple up/down arrows but also can make drawings less readable. Personally I find them no better no worse than any others I have perused over the years, just different. To be honest if I had to have a preference it would be for traditional linen strip prints and framed relay room signal selection drawings from the 1940s and 1950s or thereabouts which were very common when I began my LT career. Worst of all for my money are the paper strip prints for the Picc west of Acton Town with their double cut circuitry and mile after mile of coincidence lines going back and forth between the trackside locations, it used to be a nightmare testing out after changing a few pairs of QN1s in the trackside kiosks! As a tester, I find the Central Line stuff great. As long as you know how to read the bookwirings, everything is cross-referenced to each other and finding things can take a matter of seconds. In traditional LT bookwirings, you almost need to have a sixth sense of where something is likely to be in order to start looking for it. This is especially true of relay contact schedules - the traditional ones state the circuit name and you then have to go and find that circuit. Easy if it's 123GQ, but the odd stuff can take a while to find, and it's often best to seach for 'Miscellaneous PRs' and start from there. TD circuit are even worse... The other good thing is that they are often a lot less cluttered than traditional bookwiring sheets - I wonder if the aim was to fit as many circuits as possible onto one sheet? However, the use of CAD does lead to a cut/paste mentality which has been known to catch people out! As for auto strips, drawing them is as bad as reading them. Linen is very hard to draw on neatly because of it's texture, and film smudges too easily... There is a Drawing Office Notice about the overall length of an auto strip - I can't remember what the dimension is though.
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Post by railtechnician on Aug 8, 2010 3:30:29 GMT
Funny thing but I agree with you about the sixth sense, when I knew that I'd be changing multiple relays I'd get to site ASAP and start digging through the bookwiring. I'd go for all the standard contacts first which was usually quite straightforward but there'd always be an obscure non-safety circuit or two to find, often TD as you say or something really miscellaneous. As for contact schedules our chief SOM at the time, Alan Wood, used to swear by them but I seldom saw them except in the SOMs offices and never used them myself preferring to find the contacts the hard way. There'd always be an odd circuit or two that was a real pig to find but I always managed to find everything before I had to let the signalman have control of the IMR again. As for the old Jubilee signalling I didn't really find it any worse than the west end of the Picc though I mostly worked in all the IMRs from Charing Cross to Stanmore. Contact cleaning on Wembley Park and Neasden frames was perhaps most demanding especially when the shunter wanted to play trains all night! I think worst of all were the clamplock points at Neasden especially after all the security fencing was installed.
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Post by wain77 on Sept 15, 2010 16:19:37 GMT
Not sure how relevant this is to OP, but SimSig ( www.simsig.co.uk) has recently released the Wembley Suburban simulation, which includes the Queen's Park to Harrow & Wealdstone portion of the Bakerloo line. I know it's run to NR rules, but still very interesting and a nice little simulation.
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rincew1nd
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Post by rincew1nd on Sept 15, 2010 21:22:40 GMT
Oh dear, there goes my evening and day off work tomorrow!
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