Request for Harsig - H&C '30s

50,000+ ?!!

I'm in awe, sir!

And I know the feeling about file names. I shudder to think how many items are called 'untitled.bmp' or untitled5.ai' or 'new text document (8).doc' or such.

I'm just curious as to how the met used all 4 suburban platforms there; im trying to build the underground in trainz, which will probably occupy me for a good few months... I want to make the layout as flexible as possible, and it will have a few extra (but historically relevant) additions in it. Which reminds me.....

<oo>

Would it be possible to see the c1914 plan, pretty please.

Hi again
The Suburban platforms were also shared by the GWR suburban services. The H&C electric services tended to use the outside platforms with the terminating GWR services using the two central ones. Don't forget the Smithfield Market meat trains would have passed through also and there would have been the GWR- City services which until 1939 would have swapped traction between a GWR kettle and and Met electric loco. These used GWR stock of various types (which included articulated types) which formed the basis of an extensive article in an issue of 'Great Western Railway Journal' (I borrowed it honest m'lud) which also had some useful details of the stock workings. Staying with the same journal (another borrowed one I deny all accusations of purchasing anything GWR...) is part 2 of a major series on Paddington which includes of course the suburban section. Part 1 appears in GWRJ no 71 (Summer 2009) dealing with Paddington to the end of Broad Guage. Part 2 appears in the current issue (no 72) and takes the story up to the rebuilding with lots of good photos that may be of interest. The editorial in issue 72 said that there will then be a break for a few issues before part 3 was published.

To find out how the four platforms were used in detail (ie numbers used etc) you would need to find someone with an interest in Met WTT who can elaborate on the fine details. There are a few of us here who have the same affliction. Also of interest are the GWR Service Timetables (you need no2 section for the suburban platforms) as these will give the details you want. I have copied a few of these and this will show how the 4 platforms got used and the the infamous 4 Met electric loco convey in the mornings from Neasden. They are obviously biased to the GWR services (though the H&C was also of GWR interest too.) but show which service went where. They don't give the fine detail such as which diagram/ train working number was utilised on the H&C (GWR and Met) electric units- they are in the relevant Met WTT. Bishop's Road/ Suburban was certainly an interesting part of the station. Never mind all those Castles, Kings etc- the real action at Paddington took place in platforms 13-16.

As a final thought (and I'm likely to think of something else so apologies if I seem to be pestering you) there was an article in Backtrack (Vol 14 No7, July 2000) by Michael J Smith entitled "Underground Main Line" which gives a little of the background into the the through GW services onto the Met. He also looks at the LTSR and District service from Ealing- Southend but that is digressing somewhat..)

Hi
I'm quite happy sharing any of the info/ diagrams that I have however I have plans on writing an article about the 1932 proposal for Bishop's Road (for which I have an illustrator lined up to produce the drawings for me) so am not going to share them at the moment. The info is in the public domain at the National Archives if you are able to get there and view it for your self. The actual track plan appears to be the same as that which ultimately was controlled by Paddington Arrival box on its Suburban frame/slides.

As etr220 rightly states work during the 1960s involved LT taking over the H&C fully and it getting separated physically from the WR network with associated signalling changes. Two of the platforms (nos 13 and 14) became dead end bays for WR services only (with electric rails removed) controlled by Old Oak Common PSB. The remaining two platforms (nos 15 and 16) were retained as through platforms which now form the east and west bound H&C Line platforms and of course retain LT 4th rail electrics.

The changes and remodelling were dealt with in LT Traffic Circulars- which I will share when I can get my hands on them- and the BR works were detailed in Resignalling Notices for OOC PSB. Again the exact details slip my mind at the moment but I think are available for download on Danny Scoggins' "Signalling Notices" site. This segregation took place about 1967-69. Finally the Ralph Cooke book on GWR and WR Track Diagrams dealing with London (out of print and you have more chance of Lord Lucan becoming the next Labour leader than finding a copy it seems) shows in detail the changes associated with the remodelling and segregation at this time. I have a copy of this book and am happy to send you a copy of the relevant page assuming that I am not breaching any copyright rules. The book does include the H&C as it has GWR origins so can include the relevant pages for you as well. A final sugestion is that that one of the new GWR Goods Services books by Wild Swan (part 2a IIRC) dealing with London has a section on Hammersmith H&C (it had some coal traffic to the coal yard and for a while had a connection to a car factory on the same side as the car (as in EMU) sheds which must have produced some interesting shunting movements. I'll try and dig out the ISBN for you so you can order it via your library as it is in copyright and copying it will breach the law so I am unwilling to copy it -sorry about that.

I mentioned GWR Service timetables- there is a reprint available of a No2 section (Paddington Suburban ad the West London Railway) for Jan 2nd 1939 which has the table dealing with Paddington Suburban platforms showing how they were used. Note that the hauled through services from the GWR lines to the City are shown as temporarily suspended but there is a table giving details of these although they are not included in the text for the Suburban platform usage. I do have copies of others that do include this. The National Archives has a complete range of GWR Service Timetables if other years are wanted to be considered. The reprint I mentioned is by Dragonwheel Books for £5.95 and has an ISBN 1 905014 39 2. The range is well worth a look at as they have a large range of reprints of WTTs of other official publications.I think they also do a Met Railway appendix as well but at this moment have forgotten and need to be getting of to bed. If you want their contact details please pm me but they are available at Ian Allan shops.

Finally the GWR Journal dealing with the coaching stock used on the through GWR to the City services (via the Met) is issue no 20.

You will just be have to be patient with me over the next few days as I have paid employment to go to! I'll try not to forget but as MRFS can testify I do have a habit of forgetting things.

You may find some diagrams in the book on the West London Railway; istr that has plans of Hammersmith in the early days.

from my memories, the signal box at Hammermith lasted till well into the 1970's to the west of the H&C station and some way back from the running lines, about opposite the car sheds.

Further up the line, when I learnt the H&C in 1973, they still had the connection and diamond crossing at Westbourne Park for Crimea sidings controlled by an X signal at the west end of the H&C platforms.

Near royal oak, the BR goods sidings adjacent to the H&C lines were fitted with derailment protectors, which consisted of angle iron about 6" above rail height and inside the running rails on the siding nearest the running lines. If any wagon derailed, it would place to danger the signals on that stretch of the H&C. Crude but effective.

Maybe I should also mention that Olympia was used for WR main line trains during the 1960's resignalling of Paddington. It was quite impressive seeing a sand coloured Western on an express set next to a Q stock at Olympia!

Re loco changes at Paddington H&C, from posts in District Dave's memory section, the Met kettles used to work through to Farringdon on goods trains. Remember the widened lines were not electrified, nor were Farringdon goods depots to my knowledge.

Edited to add you need the book West London Line by Vic Mitchell and Keith smith, published by Middleton Press. Diagram XII is a track plan of the very area you want, the Grove Road link, albeit in the very early days.

I was a signalman at Hammersmith(H&C) cabin in 1968, the GWR box was still in use by the London Transport Permanent Way department as a woodworking workshop.

The GWR box was knocked down so that Wimpey could build its new Head Office.

Yes I know all of them very well