Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2010 16:19:21 GMT
Someone please please tell me that this wasn't simply because workmen were gussying up the platform furniture at Stratford.
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 18, 2010 16:53:26 GMT
It is due to station works at Stratford, but I dont know the specifics.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2010 18:45:42 GMT
I can confirm it is to do with works at Stratford.
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Post by superteacher on Apr 25, 2010 14:10:17 GMT
I've mentioned this before, but I still can't work out why Bethnal Green station can't be open, since one third of the trains run there empty to reverse!
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 25, 2010 15:55:53 GMT
And I'm sure the reply was something along the lines of the level of service that could offered would be unable to safely meet demand.
I can't say I know that station nor whether it could cope, but it does seem quite plausible.
EDIT: Another train of thought (pardon the poor pun) - again I don't know the area, but if trains are reversing there, is a shunt signal involved?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2010 17:22:43 GMT
I've mentioned this before, but I still can't work out why Bethnal Green station can't be open, since one third of the trains run there empty to reverse! I do wonder - based on loads of similar experiences - how many people who either wait at Liverpool Street or ignore the copious announcements made by the train op (or not) and end up at Bethnal Green with no onward replacement bus service? I can imagine the "nobody told me" routine or "there is no information telling me" routine at Bethnal Green. Anybody have a first hand experience of the recent Picc Line closures to Heathrow - did most people take the advice and travel via Ealing Broadway, or did we see people use the local replacement buses?
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Post by superteacher on Apr 25, 2010 17:38:57 GMT
I've mentioned this before, but I still can't work out why Bethnal Green station can't be open, since one third of the trains run there empty to reverse! I do wonder - based on loads of similar experiences - how many people who either wait at Liverpool Street or ignore the copious announcements made by the train op (or not) and end up at Bethnal Green with no onward replacement bus service? I can imagine the "nobody told me" routine or "there is no information telling me" routine at Bethnal Green. Anybody have a first hand experience of the recent Picc Line closures to Heathrow - did most people take the advice and travel via Ealing Broadway, or did we see people use the local replacement buses? There is no replacement bus service at Liverpool Street, although there is the main line service to Stratford, where the replacement bus runs from. I raise the issue of Bethnal Green because it is the harderst to get to in terms of connections. By getting off at Liverpool Street, a tran service is available to Mile End (Hammersmith and City line) and Stratford (main line), where a dedicated bus runs to Leyton and Leytonstone. The poor Bethnal Green passengers can either get a very infrequent main line train from Liverpool Street, or the number 8 bus! They could easily change the service pattern - train run every 4 minutes to Liverpool Street when the line is closed, with one every 12 running empty to Bethnal Green. It woud be possible to change this to every other train running to Bethnal Green in service, thus giving an 8 minute service. This would easily be able to cope with the Sunday usage. In response to Colin's point about a shunt, trains reversing at Bethnal Green run into the eastbound platform, then westbound via the trailing crossover. All can be done in passenger service.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 25, 2010 17:51:21 GMT
Let me try again.
The point of my original post was not to ask whether the alternative arrangements were appropriate, but to - I suppose the word I want is "complain" - to complain that the service was suspended when there was no question of an engineer's possession of the track.
Why couldn't trains just run through Stratford? It happens elsewhere when platforms are being gussied up.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 25, 2010 18:07:34 GMT
In terms of not running trains through an area where platform work is being done, it all depends on the type of work & how close to the platform edge the work is.
There are prescribed limits in LU's rule book - certain activities cannot be carried out during traffic hours unless a possession is in place to afford proper protection.
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Post by Tubeboy on Apr 25, 2010 21:45:00 GMT
Bethnal Green Can be accessed via the Mainline from Liverpool St.
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Post by norbitonflyer on Apr 25, 2010 22:09:55 GMT
But Bethnal Green main line statoin is a long way from the tube station - indeed Cambridge Heath is almost as near - has no service to Mile End or Stratford, and does not open on Sundays until 0921.
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North End
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Post by North End on Apr 25, 2010 22:17:03 GMT
And I'm sure the reply was something along the lines of the level of service that could offered would be unable to safely meet demand. I can't say I know that station nor whether it could cope, but it does seem quite plausible. EDIT: Another train of thought (pardon the poor pun) - again I don't know the area, but if trains are reversing there, is a shunt signal involved? Definitely is a passenger move. It's been used comparatively recently (early 2000's) during engineering work in precisely this scenario. Can't see any reason why the station wouldn't cope, even with a fully loaded train terminating there - which isn't going to happen. Presumably someone up at Broadway thinks it's a "passenger convenience" thing, by terminating everything at Liverpool Street it forces people to use the mainline trains to Stratford. In my opinion they should run in service to/from Bethnal Green.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 26, 2010 23:39:47 GMT
I have the Bethnal Green crossover in my rare track log; I got it during a closure back in 2005 (per THIS THREAD where I asked about the throwing distance of the points). At the time, demand for trains to Bethnal Green seemed to be very very low, with few people on the trains. Most people alighted at Liverpool Street. I suspect that in this instance the TTN authors felt that there was no need to run in passenger service to Bethnal Green.
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mrfs42
71E25683904T 172E6538094T
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 27, 2010 5:51:48 GMT
I suspect that in this instance the TTN authors felt that there was no need to run in passenger service to Bethnal Green. Or that the TTN authors have been given a new set of standards to attain. ;D I can't immediately think of a practical or timetabling reason why something like a 4¼ min (and upwards) service can't be run without ∇'ing at Bethnal Green; you might be able to cut that down to 2½ min with ∇. Perhaps there isn't quite enough facilities for the stepping back crews to have a PNR ?
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Post by jswallow on Apr 27, 2010 6:06:30 GMT
What's ∇? We're don't all have access to your book of codes.
I'm guessing "stepping back", but it would be polite to actually write that.
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mrfs42
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Post by mrfs42 on Apr 27, 2010 6:14:52 GMT
∇ is indeed the symbol for stepping back; and has been in use since June 1958. It is not a new thing, by any stretch of the imagination. Further details and a possible explanation are here.
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Colin
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Post by Colin on Apr 27, 2010 15:13:29 GMT
Or maybe there just aren't the available train crew any more.
With a shutdown like this, the train crew running the service from West Ruislip/Ealing to Liverpool Street will most likely be provided solely from West Ruislip and White City depots, with the East end crews running the service from Leytonstone to Epping/Hainault/Woodford.
You can only work with the resources you have available.
Maybe they could taxi Leytonstone crews to Bethnal Green, but in this age of saving money, is that cost effective?
The practice of taxi'ing crews on the District was prevalent up to last year, but there is hardly any now...
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